Hallelujah (part 2. Provisional. Completely different)
Andrew Cory
Now, if I am reading This correctly, it will soon be very easy to write a double-click install program for a Linux OS. Indeed, if I understand correctly, it will soon be easy to write one that works across distributions. Or did I miss something?
The companies will be working to create a common application runtime and to standardize install time requirements for key Linux distributions. This will mean that core pieces of the Linux desktop, including libraries and non-binary application behaviors, will be standardized for both Linux distributors and ISVs.
Zemlin said the group will be "dealing with all issues concerning interoperability."
If that is the case, then: pa-raize Jaeesus!!
One of the major reasons I've stayed away from Linux is the lack of a common install wizard. In fact, I've frequently asked myself why don't Linuxi have a "click on the install" program, anyway?
Maybe the developers have started asking the same question... :)
(I was able to install Firefox "manually", so I'm guessing that Click-n-Run isn't obligatory on Linspire.)
It's about time the Linux community got together and acted like a community on this. Software installation is almost a public utility, like sewers. If everybody does it differently, you just end up with a lot of stinky stuff in places you don't want it.
It's one step closer to a truly functional consumer product.
[Note: That's "consumer" not "user", as in the people who buy their computers at CompUSA or BestBuy. "Users" don't seem to have a problem with their Linux OSes, but they often build their own boxes, too.]
Derek:
Back when I gave Lindows a try (I got their very last “lindows” branded disk, if that tells you anything), I tried their Click N Run program. It was nice-- save that I couldn’t some programs to actually work. It was bizarre and frustrating. Format the hardrive...
rpm -ivh
or
apt-get install
It's not rocket science.
Exellent! Now that I’ve downloaded my prospective software from the internet, how do I run this “rpm -ivh” program? It’s neither on the desktop or the version of the start menu on SuSE 9.3...
Alternatively, how do I run this “apt-get install”? If it ain’t obvious, it might as well be rocket science. Come to think of it, the principles of Rocket science (Newton’s laws) are taught to grammar school kids. I have no idea where do to go to learn linux. And Linux for dummies wasn’t very helpful either...
Look: It’s easier to install a
driverVIRUS! on Windows than it is to install Thunderbird on Fedora Core 3. This is a problem...And, yes, Joe, sometimes it is that easy. If you find the package for your Linux flavor, if it is up to date (it really bugs me when they release "current" flavors with old versions of apps, like {say} v1.4 of Mozilla), and so on; yes, then it's easy.
From what I've read, Debian, Suse, and Mandrake feature the least painless application installs. (In case folks here didn't know, Lindows/Linspire is Debian-based)
But still, you have to find the proper package for apt-get, or .rpm, or etc... Then you have to get the version which will run under KDE or GNOME (depending).
As opposed to the real world, where you just run a Wintel or Mac install program.
BTW: Andrew, apt-get and rpm are command-line utilities for installing applications under various Linuxi. I believe both have GUI front ends available, but (as you say) access isn't obvious.
I'd say Joe is correct, but only in a very narrow sense. It is easy, if you already know how. The entire point of modern operating systems is to create the penultimate black box, just like a radio or home theatre system. All the user needs to know is which buttons to push.
Ok. Sometimes the remote can be pretty tricky... :)
*muttering* I thought command lines were obsolete...
Command line, GUI, menu-driven vs. command-line options (that used to be a BIG argument, back in the day; "real men" didn't need no stinkin' menu!) they're all tools.
You use the right tool for the right job. There are times I still use command-line for file maintenance and other goodies.
If only XP came with a good REXX interpreter... Sigh. I guess I can always go with 4NT. Heh.
Also, Joe misspelled "yum install OpenOffice" :) Contrary to Casey it really *is* just that easy on Fedora 3 and 4. yum automatically downloads and installs dependancies as needed and everything else. And it has a nice graphical front end for your parents. I don't compile apps myself anymore since I started using it ;-)
And how do I use this “Yum” program?
Yes, the LSB Desktop standard will hopefully make it easier to write applications that install on multiple distributions without a problem.
Technically, it's possible today, but the apps you can install this way aren't too interesting because none of the desktop stuff is in the standard. So, LSB apps consist mostly of command-line tools and servers. That's the hole this standard is hoping to plug.
Getting back to the installer question: the LSB has already standardized the software install process, but it hasn't seemed to be terribly interesting because of the stuff above. If the desktop standard takes hold, the install standard will likely start looking more compelling, and the process for installing such things will start getting fixed.
Answers to random questions:
Yes, there is a GUI to apt. It's not bad.
Yum is like apt for RPM, except done less well than apt for Debian but better than the apt for RPM thing that's around.
Uninstalling is arguably the best feature of a package system, since you can remove the packages without the "uninstaller" leaving crap all over the system, re-installing itself behind your back, etc.
People who hate command lines need to read Neal Stephenson's essay, "In the Beginning Was the Command Line". It won't make you like them any better, but it will help you to understand why they don't go away. Search Google for the essay.