Dean's World

Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.

Iran Is A Republic, & Not A Democracy

I've been seeing discussion threads lately (such as on my lovely wife's site or at Michael Totten's place) comparing Iraq's new proposed Constitution to Iran. They keep pointing out that they have elections in Iran and that they have Islamic law there, and so what's the difference? Some even say, well they have corrupt elections in Iran and they'll be corrupt in Iraq too so same thing right?

I understand this confusion, but it's simply confusion. You have to know something about how Iran's government works to even think this is a remotely reasonable comparison. Let's examine how Iran's system of government works:

1) Iran is a Constitutional Republic--a non-democratic Republic.

2) It is ruled first and foremost by what their Constitution terms "The Supreme Leader." This man is not elected. Current holder of the office is the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. He is the Commander In Chief of the armed forces, the head of all intelligence and security forces absolutely. He and he alone has the power to declare war. He also has the unilateral power to appoint or dismiss judges, has complete control over all television and radio networks, and controls many other important functions--and once again, his control over most of these things is absolute. He also controls half of the "Council of Guardians," a group that interprets the Iranian Constitution.

How does Supreme Leader--i.e. Dictator For Life--get his job? He is "elected" by:

2) The Assembly of Experts. This body is made up of 86 clerics--mullahs, ayatollahs--who are "elected" to 8 year terms of office. One says "elected" with trepidation, because they have to be widely recognized religious figures. Widely recognized by who? By other religious men. Basically, if you aren't in the Ayatollah Club, you don't get to be on this assembly. Furthermore, this "Assembly of Experts" has never once been known to either overrule or remove from office any Supreme Leader.

3) Who is the Council of Guardians? A group of 12 quasi-judges who have the ultimate authority for interpreting the Constitution. By law, half of them are appointed and keep their job at the whim of the Supreme Leader and are always clerics. The other half are appointed by the Parliament. Oh, there's a "Parliament?" Sure. Sort of.

4) Parliament: An assembled body that gets to vote on budgetary matters and treaties and a few related issues. All their decisions are subject to approval or rejection by the Council of Guardians--and nothing they do can overrule anything done by the Supreme Leader. Furthermore, only candidates approved by the Council of 12 are allowed to run for office--and in every "election" ever held, the vast majority of people who wanted to run for office were denied the right to do so.

5) The "President" - electected every four years. Must be approved by the Council of Guardians and the Supreme Leader. Handles day-to-day executive duties, with formal approval of the Supreme Leader for anything controversial.

In all of this, there is no free speech, there is no free press, and the only people allowed to run for any office are those approved by the Supreme Leader and the mullahs who run the entire show. People are routinely jailed for criticizing the government. Most government power resides in figures who have never been elected to anything, nor even appointed by truly elected officials.

Oh yeah, and most of the evidence shows that despite all this, massive vote fraud has been normal in every election, since the vast majority of Iranians, especially young ones, think the elections are a complete joke and a waste of time. No real reformer is ever allowed to even run for office, let alone be elected. So the mullahs appear to use a lot of ballot stuffing just to make turnout look much higher than it is.

To call all of this "democratic" or even comparable to what real elections look like is ridiculous.

Compare all of this to the new proposed Iraqi constitution: It guarantees free speech. It guarantees free press. It guarantees all Iraqis the right to vote. It guarantees all Iraqis the right to run for office. All authority is vested in elected officials, or people appointed and approved by elected officials.

Is it possible that Iraq will become like Iran, an Islamic Republic? "Possible" is a big word, but the only way it could possibly happen is if they shred the proposed Constitution, throw an unelected religious nut in as dictator, with a bunch of other religious nuts to rubber stamp most of his dictates, and say "sorry, we were joking about the whole democracy thing."

There are also those who say the new Iraqi Constitution will harm women. Unfortunately some are saying dumb things like women were better off under Saddam--uhm, no. Under Saddam, a woman might have her tongue cut out or her children murdered in front of her eyes for offending the regime. Saddam's regime used to cut women's heads off and force their families to display the severed heads in their front yards. To this day we are still digging up mass graves including the bodies of countless women buried with their children, bullet holes in all their heads. Please stop making dumb comparisons like this, it's just obscene.

It is entirely possible women will end up with the short end of the stick in the new Iraqi system--but if so, it will be by their own choice. All women will have the right to speak, the right to pubish, the right to vote, and the right to run for public office, none of which they had under Saddam (and please, let's not call phony shows where Saddam's the only guy on the ballot an "election"). They'll also have an absolute minimum of 25% of the elected seats--far more than we have in Congress here in the US. So if things aren't fair, they'll have had a voice in making it that way, and will have an opportunity to object and make changes.

I wouldn't worry much about it though--surveys of the Iraqi people show that only about 25% of them want strict, conservative religious rule. Most want some aspect of the national religion in government but want moderation and secularism too.

In any case, comparing any of this to what's going on in Iran is ridiculous. The most likely scenario instead is that the Iranians will look at all the freedoms their Iraqi brethren have and begin to wonder why they can't have all that too.

Posted by Dean | Permalink | Technorati Trackbacks
TallDave (mail) (www):
Exactly.
8.26.2005 10:22am
Scott Kirwin (mail) (www):
Dean
I can't believe you felt it necessary to spell this out for people. Here are some of my responses:

"Where were you during the '80s?"
"Where were you during the '90s?"
"You're so bright, I think I'll call you 'Sunshine'."
"Are you high?"
8.26.2005 10:27am
CoolBlue (mail) (www):
Excellent post. I'm sure I'll be referring to it many times in the future.

Though I have pointed this out a number of times in the past, your post is terrificly succint.

Great work
8.26.2005 12:24pm
TallDave (mail) (www):
The most likely scenario instead is that the Iranians will look at all the freedoms their Iraqi brethren have and begin to wonder why they can't have all that too.

I've wondered about that possibility a lot. There's a huge Iranian pilgrimage to Najaf in Iraq every year. What kind of democratic ideas and stories will the Iranians bring back? How many will decide they don't want to go back? In 20 years, will the Iranians have to build a wall to keep their people in, a la E Germany?

It will be interesting.
8.26.2005 12:57pm
Arnold Harris (mail):
How many Americans do you imagine really care whether Iran is a republic or a monarchy, a democracy or an autocracy?

I frankly don't give a damn what hardships they suffer, whom or what they pray to, or if they pray at all, or what becomes of them.

Once upon a time, the Persians were a great nation. But now they are nothing but a squabbling, scowl-faced, fanatical shit-pile of people who lost the religion of their ancient forefathers, and who have sucked hind tit behind the Arabs in the supposed brotherhood of Islem for almost 1400 years; a country with whom the USA has had no relations for 26 years, and about which I am happy it worked out that way.

As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, I hope their ayutollahs fuck them over real good. My motto is: "Everybody gets what's coming to him".

And if any of you do give a damn about liberty, equality and whatnot in Iran, then what are you personally prepared do in order to free them from their nasty ayutollahs?

I've gotten to the stage in life in which I get royally sardonic about folks mouthing off about the problems of:

-- starving, overpopulated, badly-governed or diseased Africans, nearly all of whom were better off under European colonialist rule. One day, if they're lucky, the Chinese will be their new masters.

-- screaming, jumping, wild-eyed Arabs parading their hatred around in black masks like some raghead klavern of the old Ku Klux Klan (who at least mostly kept their mouths shut when their burned their crosses).

-- thoroughly drunken Russians who let their country fall apart every time their czarist government (Romanov or Leninist, take your pick) fades away in Moscow.

-- Germans of a certain mentality who even now pine away for "unser Mauer" (our wall), some 16 years after the collapse of Communism gave them freedom.

-- Frenchmen who could never win a bicycle race against Lance Armstrong, an American, and now make up for it by phonying up stories of him beating the local talent solely by doping himself.

What a pitiful latrine-hole France has become, of what used to be a noble country! I sincerely hope their German partners conquer them over and over again, while the Yanks and Brits look on in studied inactivity. Let the Bundeswehr parade underneath the Arc d'Triomphe Every May 10 of every year, forever, while the German leaders dine on schnitzel, wurst and beer in the Hall of Mirrors at Versailles.

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
8.26.2005 1:48pm
Dean Esmay:
I understand the limits of sympathy, especially when so many idiotarians act as if the US is an evil dictatorship.
8.26.2005 1:56pm
Arnold Harris (mail):
Unless you have traveled and lived elsewhere in the world for some extended period, you simply cannot imagine the blessings of citizenship and residence in the United States of America.

And you are correct. Sympathy, even if seasoned with salt, pepper, garlic and oregano, is an insipid dish bordering on tastelessness.

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
8.26.2005 2:11pm
Doc Rampage II (mail) (www):
Dean, the word "republic" does not contrast with "democracy". The two words refer to different aspects of the government. "Republic" tells us how the government is organized; "democracy" tells us who is ultimately in charge. "Democracy" means "rule by the people".

Since Iraq will be a republic as well as a democracy, it doesn't make sense to say that the difference between Iraq and Iran is that Iran is a republic. They both are (or will be). The word you are looking for to contrast with "democracy" is "oligarchy". Iraq will (hopefully) be a democracy, rule by the people. Iran is an oligarchy, rule by an elite minority. Most modern oligarchies, like most modern democracies are republics.

I'd really like to know why you have this bug in your ass about republics, considering that all current governments that you approve of _are_ republics.
8.26.2005 3:49pm
Dean Esmay:
Heh. Let's try to get this straight:

1) You can be black and not gay
2) You can be gay and not black
3) You can be a black gay man

So it is with democracies and republics. The United States is both a republic and a democracy--despite the best efforts of some conservatives to try to deny that we're a democracy, we are one. We're also a republic.

However, there are republics which are not in any meaningful sense democracies; Iran is a primary example.

Iraq's new Constitution, if it is ratified and if it is followed, will make it a democratic republic. This will make it fundamentally different on multiple levels from Iran, despite the best efforts of certain partisans to spin it otherwise.
8.26.2005 5:28pm
Mrs. du Toit (www):
I'd agree with you on that last bit if you stated that we are a "representative republic." We are not a "strict-democracy" any more than we are a generic "republic." We are not a "Representative democracy."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy

We elect our representatives (to decide for us, not decide every issue on majority rule) and we have a Constitution that limits what the government may do (which may be changed by a super majority of the member states). Neither of those conditions are correct for "democracy." In fact, it is the exact opposite of what it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic
Republics can be led by a head of state that has many of the characteristics of a monarch: not only do some republics install a president for life, and invest such president with powers beyond what is usual in a representative democracy, examples such as the post-1970 Syrian Arab Republic show that such a presidency can apparently be made hereditary. Historians disagree when the Roman Republic turned into Imperial Rome: the reason is that the first Emperors were given their head of state powers gradually in a government system that in appearance did not originally much differ from the Roman Republic[1].

Similarly, if taking the broad definition of republic above ("In a broad definition a republic is a state or country that is led by people that don't base their political power on any principle beyond the control of the people living in that state or country."), countries usually qualified as monarchies can have many traits of a republic in terms of form of government. The political power of monarchs can be non-existent, limited to a purely ceremonial function or the "control of the people" can be exerted to the extent that they appear to have the power to have their monarch replaced by another one[2].

The often assumed "mutual exclusiveness" of monarchies and republics as forms of government[3] is thus not to be taken too literally, and largely depends on circumstances:


Our criminal law (not civil/common law) was based on Judeo-Christian principles. It should not be surprising that a primarily Islamic country would base their criminal laws on their guy's tablets.
8.26.2005 6:31pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
Dean likes to tweak Objectivists, Birchers, and other Right-Wing Extremists. I should get used to it. He's a Liberal. When American Conservatives speak of the U.S. as a "republic not a democracy", that is short-hand for saying that we were founded by a wealthy, classically-educated elite to be a Constitutional republic with checks and balances (Electoral College, Senate, Supreme Court, etc.) and strictly limited government to protect individual rights to life, liberty, and property, rather than a democracy of unlimited majority rule where the majority is allowed to vote to loot the property of wealthy minorities and redistribute it among themselves.
8.26.2005 8:26pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
I must add that I am to the Right of our Founding Fathers in that I would have preferred a Constitutional monarchy, but our historical circumstances did not allow for that. That's just the way it is.
8.26.2005 8:29pm
Michelle Dulak Thomson (mail):
Totally OT of course, but I have to compliment Dean on

[ . . . ] the mullahs who run the entire shoe[,]

which in the annals of typos inducing involuntary, hilarious mental images surely deserves some kind of special recognition. Thanks, Dean, for that momentary apparition of the Iranian Navy's flagship and its crew.
8.26.2005 8:38pm
Doc Rampage II (mail) (www):
OK, I get it now. Your arguments in this republic/democracy thing are intended to be countering some position that I'm not familiar with, so I didn't get the point.

Can you point me to some of these conservatives who claim that the US is not a democracy? I hope you aren't just responding to the Republican propoganda that Steve referred to: "a republic, not a democracy". Although the wording is a bit silly, intended to "explain" why we should be Republicans rather than Democrats, the point is sound. All this means is that there are limits on the powers of the majority (contra Steve, I don't think anything about the wealth or education of the founders is implied).

Clearly the US _was_ set up with limits on the power of the majority, so I hope that's not what you are disputing...
8.26.2005 11:11pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
The saying that we are a "republic not a democracy" is not about political party labels, that is shallow thinking. It is a fundamental argument regarding the intended form, purpose, and limitations of our government that has been going on since the New Deal. The wealth and education of our Founders is relevant. They were men who knew history and who valued property. The American Revolution was not the French Revolution. (Note: I am not attacking the grand nation that was once France, the Catholic monarchy of holy Jeanne d'Arc, only the subversive element that has destroyed it.)
8.27.2005 12:39am
Dean Esmay:
No, I can't point you to any specifics, I'd have to point you to old issues of The National Review or some of the stuff Steven Malcolm Anderson talks about. Or to stuff the US Founding Fathers wrote against the concept of democracy--most of which turned out to be wrong, by the way. Or just tell you to pay attention long enough to online discussions. I can assure you that if you post an article on your blog stating, "I'm glad America is a democracy," and a few people link it, you'll have someone try to "correct" you on the matter.

I pretty much said all I have to say on the matter here: A Democracy, Not Merely A Republic.

All democracies--all of them--have Constitutions, limitations of power, and checks and balances. All have some representative features, and all enshrine rule of law in their systems.

The bottom line is, again: Iran is a Republic. It is not, however, in any meaningful sense a democracy. The new Iraq -- assuming they ratify and follow their proposed Constitution -- will be both a democracy and a republic.
8.27.2005 5:42am
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
I do not mean to imply that only the wealthy can value property. The poor value their own property just as much. But, unfortunately they can all too easily be led by demogogues into voting to loot the property of those who have more than they. It works the other way around, too, when mixed-economy capitalists-turned-pragmatists get government to loot the property of the poor or middle class to make themselves richer (see, e.g., Kelo). Socialism is a sword that cuts both ways.
8.27.2005 9:33am