Dean's World

Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.

Nastiness

I was recently described by a left-wing hate-blogger who goes by the anonymous handle "Mithras" as:

...popular among right-wingers as one of those centrists who just happen to hate liberals and Democrats. A proud dry drunk, he works out his unresolved childhood issues of being raised in a union household by writing about his crackpot theories on HIV/AIDS, feminism, and capitalism.

I'm not going to link it. I resolved long ago not to give links to people who attack me or my family personally, nor to host their trackbacks (disagreement is fine, attacks are not). But you can read more about it from David Bernstein.

I was only one of ten bloggers attacked, but Bernstein rightly singles out the slurs against Michelle Malkin, since she was subjected to the most sexist and racist attacks of all. But all of the attacks served to illustrate Mithras and his fans are vicious racists, sexists, and crypto-fascist creeps---sort of like Michael Moore but without the good looks, or Ann Coulter without the cojones.

For the record: I don't hate liberals, nor Democrats. I do hate fascists and fascist apologists, some of whom wear liberal clothing--and some of whom wear conservative clothing. I also despise the hate-America left: the Noam Chomskys, the Howard Zinns, the Pepe Escobars, and so on, along with vile people like Jerry Falwell or James Dobson or Pat Buchanan. I am also very much a defender of the honorable people who work in our military.

I've never hidden any of that, nor the fact that I view my liberalism as the old-fashioned, patriotic variety: anti-fascist, anti-totalitarian, open-minded, favoring ideas for reform, and eschewing tradition for tradition's sake.

If it's any consolation, a lot of conservatives and libertarians make the mistake of counting me in their number--then become shocked when they learn about my views on things like education and health care, gay rights, immigration, "family values," abortion, Islam and other non-Christian religions, large corporations, language, fashion, premarital sex, and so on. I simply don't fit into the neat little boxes that people on the left or right want to put me into.

I didn't grow up in a union household. Also I am not a "proud dry drunk," I am a much-more-often sober, less-self-indulgent drunk, not proud of it at all, and I only talk about it because I want to help other people.

My "crackpot theories" on HIV and AIDS are not mine at all. They are those of world-class biologists with numerous peer-reviewed papers to their names (including at least one Nobel laureate), practicing medical doctors, and HIV+ people I have spoken to. In other words, whether they're right or wrong, they are hardly "crackpot."

I have no particular theory on capitalism except that government-regulated, generally-free markets generally work, while Marxism is a dysfunctional philosophy of murder and hate.

"Feminism" is a null concept until you explain what you mean by it. I'm certainly a staunch advocate for women's rights in oppressed countries like Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Lebanon, Syria, and so on, and without reservation. I am generally an advocate of fairness and freedom of choice between the sexes. I'm also an unabashed advocate of men's rights, since so much of our system of law here in the U.S. is extremely hostile to men, most particularly fathers.

There are those I suppose who looked at Mithras' piece as humorous. I admit, I chuckled more than a little reading it--but only because I can think of little that belies the fundamentally reactionary and intolerant worldview that has come to define so much of the left today.

Posted by Dean | Permalink | Technorati Trackbacks
Andrew Cory (mail) (www):
But Dean, I’m a leftist Democrat, and you send me an Email every day telling me how much you hate me...
8.8.2005 5:15am
Dean Esmay:
Yes, but only because I love you. :-)
8.8.2005 5:33am
Ken McCracken (mail) (www):
Dean, this is the second time I am doing this to you. You suggested we not link to Kos, and I did so and trackbacked to you. Now, you don't want to link to this attack on you, but I yet again tracked you back with a link.

Feel free to delete the trackback, or let me know if this is kosher.
8.8.2005 5:51am
Dean Esmay:
I only suggest you not link to certain people because doing so boosts their rankings in things like Technorati and Google. Why give them the privilege? But if you're going to, try to at least show restraint, and show yourself to be rational while those people are utterly nuts.

That's the policy I urge others to take, not something I enforce. Still, think what a more civil place this would be if more of us chose to ignore the likes of Drudge, Kos, Atrios, Savage, Coulter, and so on.
8.8.2005 7:03am
Dean Esmay:
Er, in case I wasn't clear: you link what you want. I'm not at war with people who don't follow my link policies. Your blog, you link what you link.
8.8.2005 8:06am
IB Bill (mail) (www):
FWIW, I stuck up for you on my humble blog a few days back regarding this post.
8.8.2005 8:13am
Andrew Ian Dodge (mail) (www):
Wow that is pretty vicious. No doubt he thinks he is being pithy or something. Shows you are doing a wonderful job and getting under his skin. Just make sure he does not issue any death threats.
8.8.2005 8:23am
Bryan AWS (mail) (www):
If it's any consolation, a lot of conservatives and libertarians make the mistake of counting me in their number--then become shocked when they learn about my views on things like education and health care, gay rights, immigration, "family values," abortion, Islam and other non-Christian religions, large corporations, language, fashion, premarital sex, and so on. I simply don't fit into the neat little boxes that people on the left or right want to put me into.

I continue to read precisely because you don't fit the boxes. Dean is Dean. I may not agree with everything you say, but I can deal with that. We're adults here. Same reason I keep reading that post-punk Long Island mother Michele.

As for the post, horribly inaccurate, as you've noted, but flattering in a way as well in a weird way. At least you're part of the party.
8.8.2005 8:44am
Michael Demmons (mail) (www):
LOL! I think that is the dumbest description of you I have ever seen. I know you think I despise you, Dean, but I only argue with you when I believe I am right. This nitwit just throws out invective for invective's sake.
8.8.2005 9:04am
Dean Esmay:
Maybe I sometimes mistake snarkiness for nastiness.

Or maybe my stress levels are getting too high again.
8.8.2005 9:45am
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
'Tis an honor to be on such a list. I wish I was there. He forgot to mention that Dean is married to THE QUEEN OF ALL EVIL....!!!!

I admire Dean
For marrying the Queen.

I admire the Queen
For marrying Dean.

This Commie does not derserve the name "Mithras". Mithras/Mitra is the name of a Persian and Hindu (both come from the same Indo-Iranian Aryan roots of the Vedic era) Sun God, who was later worshipped by high-ranking officers in the Roman army at the time of the rise of Christianity. Another blogger of that stripe went under the name of "Hesiod". When these "progressives" adopt or invoke great mythic names of the past, they do so blasphemously.

Idiotic description of Eugene Volokh and his "Conspiracy". I've been reading that blog for years. It is basically libertarian, Constitutionallist. I've never seen anything there remotely resembling "locking up all the blacks". That cliche got stale in the late 1960s, and yet this jerk continues to paste it on everybody he disagrees with on anything.

Dean is a true liberal, an ardent democrat, and and old-style (FDR/Truman) Democrat. He is not a conservative. Mark Noonan is a conservative, as are Scott Harris and Kevin D. and other great commenters here, and Arnold Harris is a man (and 1/2) of the Right, as am I. Quite a panoply here, but not too much of the likes of Kos or "Mithras".

The smear against Michelle Malkin (as also against Condi Rice) does indeed prove how racist and sexist these "progressives" really are, as well as anti-homosexual (e.g., countless "outings"), anti-Jewish ("anti-Zionist"), anti-working class (e.g., attacks on "hard hats" and "rednecks"), and anti-humanist (see "animal rights" and "deep ecology") -- everything they accuse conservatives of being. They are utter hypocrites and totally without principle, values, or ideas of any kind. Obviously, their only goal is to grab power (totalitarianism) -- and they are bungling that terribly (as they are scarcely capable of winning an election for dog catcher these days) -- or else just to tear down everything in sight (nihilism).
8.8.2005 9:46am
Sam Muldia (mail) (www):
Found this absolutely jaw-dropping comment over at the Right Wing Nuthouse.

I like Mithras’ take on Dean’s World.

This is exactly what I was talking about to a friend recently – Far Right Wing Nut crazies who were raised in blue color Democratic homes who watched all the rich Republican kids (like the Ann Coulters, the Bushs, the typical American Country Club Set) on the otherside of the tracks and wanted to be “them” when they grew up.

It’s becming a prevalent, an obvious, but oh so typical sickness.

Yopu all are a dime a dozen – complete nothings deserving to be coined tried cliches.

Can’t you vizualize both Michelle Malkin and LaShawn Barber as little girls – craining their necks to peer through the Country Club fence to watch the “Ann Coulters” of their childhood swimming in the Club pool?


Wow. Dean Esmay a 'Far Right Wing Nut'. IIRC, you're a pro-choice atheist who voted for Gore in 2000.

And it really takes an egeregious capacity for doublethink to not realize that the final paragraph about Malkin and Barber is the vilest sort of racism.

Again I'm reminded of why I stay the hell away from all left-wing blogs. They're downright scary in how easily they rationalize their repugnant reactionary impulses.

I have no love towards the REAL right-wing nuts either - I refuse to read creationist or theocrat propaganda, and even though calling LGF a 'hate site' is ridiculous (Charles Johnson is by no means a right-wing nut), the comments section is a tedious and often offensive display of frothing at the mouth without ever discussing anything.
8.8.2005 9:52am
Mike (mail):
Man, can't you just feel the love?
Seems like a case of projection and suppressed envy in the part you quote there, Sam. Never knew that love of country meant I wanted to be in the country club set (whoever that is).
Man, these dudes have some serious problems they need to work out.
8.8.2005 10:22am
Scott Kirwin (mail) (www):

A proud dry drunk, he works out his unresolved childhood issues...

What exactly is this psychobabble supposed to mean?

You know I have been participating in online discussion since I bought a '386-20 with a modem back in 1989. Most of that time I wrote under a pseudonym - until I realized that I was hiding not for safety, but for the freedom to toss "intellectual molotov's" without repercussion.

Since "coming out" I find that I am becoming increasingly less patient with people who are afraid to use their real names in posts. It's easy to attack someone when you can't be traced. It adds a whole new dimension to debate when you attack someone who can show up at your doorstep.

"Mithras" - what, is that the name of the guy's favorite D&D character?
8.8.2005 10:36am
maor (mail):
Congrats on making the Top Ten ;)
8.8.2005 10:43am
Dishman (mail):
For me, it was putting Jeff Jarvis on that list that really says it all. If Jeff is right-wing, that seems to put the center around Marx, and the Left somewhere around Stalin and Pol Pot.
8.8.2005 10:52am
Jane (mail) (www):
I really should say something intellectual and witty, but I grew up in a blue collar household in Brooklyn and I'm still trying to work out my unresolved childhood issues, so I'll just say: what a stupid MF.
8.8.2005 11:03am
Paul Burgess (www):
Dean, I already had this Mithras pegged as a bottom-feeding hatemonger. This post of his is only further confirmation.
8.8.2005 11:14am
Steven Den Beste (mail) (www):
With regard to the "Conservative" label, I too never felt as if I fit into that particular box.

I favor legalization of marijuana, prostitution, gay marriage, and gay adoption. I'm also an atheist. But the reason I'm still considered "Conservative" (by self-described "Liberals") is because I'm unashamedly patriotic, and because I believe in the virtues of private property and oppose government confiscation for purposes of redistribution of wealth. And because I support the war.

In modern American, "Liberal" doesn't mean classical liberalism. Modern "Liberals" are authoritarian socialists, and classic liberals are considered conservatives.
8.8.2005 11:15am
Scott Kirwin (mail) (www):

Modern "Liberals" are authoritarian socialists, and classic liberals are considered conservatives.


Authoritarian socialists. There is nothing to like in that term. Nothing at all.
8.8.2005 11:49am
Dean Esmay:
Sam: I didn't vote for Gore. I thought he had the right idea on health care reform--but I thought Bush's ideas on education were more important, and the tax cut looked to be helpful to our family at the time (and it was). I also thought Bush had the right idea on "nation building" (and had the exact same change of heart he did after 9/11).

I also campaigned briefly (pointlessly, alas) for Joe Lieberman and tried my damnedest to find things to like about Wes Clark and John Edwards in '04. (And Kerry did have the right stance on at least three issues so far as I was concerned in '04).

On the other hand, in retrospect I think Republicans have been *way way* too hard on Clinton, and I might vote for Hillary in '08.

Steven: Increasingly I am unwilling to surrender to the notion that we are "conservatives." Conservatism is a specific state of mind and part of a specific movement that people like you and I can share some goals with but can never truly be a part of. It's okay, they're not evil, they have an important voice that's worth hearing--but I also have to say that strictly on a technical level, conservatism is forever doomed to failure: their fight is ultimately against change and entropy, which is a battle that always fails eventually (at least until God's kingdom comes or whatever). Ultimately their job is to be the people who stop the wheels from falling off and to keep the car from careening off a cliff while the harebrained reformers tinker with redesigning things while driving down the road at unstoppable speeds.

At some future point this temporary alliance we have with them will shift, and where will we and they be? Possibly fierce opponents. Probably so. So be it. At least we'll try to remember we were allies once.

There is I think a tremendous strength in doing the work to really understand conservative thought and conservative arguments, as well as liberal ones--indeed, one of my favorite exercises (shh, don't tell anyone) is to make strong arguments for liberal policies using standard conservative logic, and to make strong arguments for conservative policies using standard liberal logic. It allows you to see things you normally have trouble noticing in the fog of typical arguments, and makes people go "hmmm!"
8.8.2005 11:55am
Eric R. Ashley (mail) (www):
An interesting question to me. Do such people hate you personally for what you've done to them (which would be shocking because you haven't done anything to deserve this, and thus it would be interpersonal malice--rather like walking into the store, and the clerk punching you because you had 21 items in a 20 item checkout lane), or because you are a symbol to them, and smacking at you is the equivalent of saying "Rah, rah, go team!" (and that would be appalling as it would be depersonalized malice...the result feeling rather like stepping into horse manure with good shoes.)?

I'm not sure I'm getting the categories right here.

One time, I was punched in the head, glasses shattered and stepped on, and robbed of pizza in a crowd. The most shocking thing was not the pain, but the sense that someone hated me enough to hit me for no good reason. But upon further consideration, I wonder if they hated me at all, if I was just a symbol to them.
8.8.2005 12:35pm
maryatexitzero (mail):
Mithras' screed is the net equivalent of "I hate Brittany", scrawled on a jr. high girls' bathroom wall. With his catty jr. high antics, Mithras is a lame James Wolcott wannabe.

Since James Wolcott is a lame Joan Rivers wannabe, "Mithras" looks third-rate in comparison. He's the Shannon Dougherty of the blogosphere.

Dean Esmay is popular among right-wingers as one of those centrists who just happen to hate liberals and Democrats.

So-called "liberals and Democrats" (actually Leftists) like Mithras are hated by centrists, conservatives, working people, the poor, the middle class and the wealthy. The only people who don't hate them are the DNC and the press.

These authoritarian socialists are going to have to start asking themselves "Why do they hate us?"

If they do ask, this former Democrat can come up with a very long list of reasons.
8.8.2005 12:49pm
Mark at Urthshu (www):
Dean just refuses to play the masochistic dance the Left is in with the sadistic terrorists and fascism supporters. The vitriol is the projection of their own damaged characters.

Of course, thats psychobabble, but thats the game Mithras was playing. Back at ya, bub.
8.8.2005 12:55pm
TallDave (mail) (www):
In modern American, "Liberal" doesn't mean classical liberalism. Modern "Liberals" are authoritarian socialists, and classic liberals are considered conservatives.

Great point Steven, well-put.
8.8.2005 1:04pm
Ghost of a flea (mail) (www):
I admire your continuing grace in the face of this sort of thing. I am no lawyer, and presumably hyperbole might defend itself as satire, but much of the post looks actionable to me. For example, I cannot recall Instapundit ever describing a "Democrat" as a traitor.
8.8.2005 1:22pm
M. Scott Eiland (mail):
Ah yes, Mithras--or "Mithwit" as I referred to him when he was the resident troll over at Sasha Castel's blog. He was fond of making clever little comments like "if it weren't for rape, Republicans wouldn't get any sex at all." Unless you enjoy reading the insights of someone who self-evidently spent too much time chewing lead paint chips when he was a youngster, I'd suggest ignoring the twit and moving on--though slamming the moonbat blogs who proudly link him wouldn't be out of line.
8.8.2005 1:23pm
BG_Doug (mail) (www):
The weird thing to me about that whole list was what a warm reception it received on a lot of normally more sensible liberal blogs. I didn't get it.
8.8.2005 1:27pm
Dean Esmay:
BDS. It's not pretty.
8.8.2005 1:36pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
'Tis an honor to have Steven Den Beste commenting here in Dean's World, as he was one of the first bloggers I ever encountered (shortly after 9/11/2001), even before I knew what a "blog" was. A true Liberal in the style of Dean.

Myself, I'm Liberal in the sense that a Liberal is one who stands for the freedom of the individual, as in freedom of thought and expression. I'm Conservative in the sense that a Conservative is one who stands for or conserves ancient and eternal absolute values. I believe, as did Frank S. Meyer, that the two are intertwined. As it was said here a while ago: Freedom requires virtue. Virtue requires faith. Faith requires freedom.

E.g.: I do not smoke marijuana, I keep my hair extremely short, I wear a fedora, and I listen to Beethoven. But I believe that marijuana should be legal for those who want it, or, at the very least, that the federal government must stay out of it (see the Tenth Amendment.

I strongly support the right of the homosexual -- the androsexual man (man's man) and the gynosexual (Lesbian) woman -- to marry another man or woman of his or her own choice. This is Liberal in the sense of choice, but also extremely Conservative. As a Conservative, I believe that sex is sacred and therefore should be reserved for marriage, i.e., a bond shaped by a vow of total commitment. That is what homosexuals as well as heterosexuals must strive to do.

As a Liberal, I believe that a woman has the absolute right over her own body, including the choice to use whatever contraceptives she sees fit. I also believe, as a Liberal, that her baby, once conceived, has the right to choose not to be aborted.

I am extremely Conservative, Reactionary, theologically, i.e., a Polytheist. I respect other traditional religions of the West: Catholicism, fundamental Protestantism, Orthodox Judaism, Peikovian Objectivism.

I am extremely Conservative in strongly supporting the mightiest voluntary military force we can build, and using it to defend our country and our Western civilization against all enemies.

That is where I stand. If a "Progressive" blogger wishes to put me on his hate list, I shall consider it an honor.
8.8.2005 2:52pm
Ken Hall (www):
I have always said that if you must rely on emotion to make your case, you should check to see whether you actually have a case.
8.8.2005 3:02pm
Arnold Harris (mail):
Your okay in my book, Dean. And I'd single that song in double-time even when I disagree with what you say. Fact is, I've never seen you shut down anyone from Dean's World for arguing against you, as long as they didn't get too pejorative with you personally or your family.

Dean's World has become a major part of my life over the past 2-3 years, or however long I've hung out here. I've had an opportunity to say what I think, and a matching opportunity to listen in on how others respond to what I write. If you and all this didn't exist, they'd have to invent you. Because the blogworld would be a lot more bereft of content without you.

So just smile at those folks and ignore them.

Your friend,

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
8.8.2005 3:58pm
Andrew Ian Dodge (mail) (www):
Mithras is the blot on the name of all that followed that particular tradition (aka Mithradism). I don't that fool has the brains that were given to all the bulls that were sacrificed to Mithra.
8.8.2005 4:23pm
Robert West (mail) (www):
It's hard to imagine how whether or not one is an alcoholic is at all relevant to a critique of one's political views.

Which I guess simply proves the point: the post you're talking about wasn't criticizing your politics; it was an uncalled for personal attack hiding in the clothes of a political rant.

Disappointing, that.
8.8.2005 4:30pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
They have no ideas, so all they have left are ad hominem smears.
8.8.2005 6:37pm
Andy00 (mail):
Not going into the actual history/mythology, "Mithras" is a popular topic among lefties who like to go "See! Jesus isn't original, it's just a myth copied off of this guy!"

Their goal isn't to find spiritual truth, though, it's just to piss off Christians.
8.8.2005 7:29pm
Eric R. Ashley (mail) (www):
And I would say that Mithras is a variant or type (to use Biblical jargon) of the Monomyth, the One Great Story. To use more writerly terms, one might call Mithras the foreshadowing of the Christ.

But I'd understand if any Mithraic followers disagreed.

And yes, the Left does like to tick off Christians. If they were smart, they'd try to lull Christians into somnolence, or even recruit them.
8.8.2005 9:02pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
Eric R. Ashley:

G. K. Chesterton and C. S. Lewis saw it that way also, that Mithras, Balder, Osiris, Dumuzi, etc., were types of the Christ. An extremely interesting and profound idea. And Frigga, Isis, Ishtar, Inanna, etc., were then types of Mary, the Queen of Heaven. I like that a lot better than the Jack T. Chick view that they were all devils, though I would not deny that some of the Gods such as Set or Moloch were devilish.

"And yes, the Left does like to tick off Christians. If they were smart, they'd try to lull Christians into somnolence, or even recruit them."

They have dones exactly that in the past, infiltrating Christian churches in order to water down doctrine and preach the Socialist Gospel, pacifism, etc.. With the manifest failure of socialism today, the Left has become increasingly nihilistic, like a cornered rat baring its teeth, and the increasingly open hostility to religion, particularly Christianity (the historic religion of the West since circa 1100 A.D.) is an expression of that. As more and more Christians return to their historic faith, to Catholicism or to fundamental Protestantism, the Leftists sneer at "Christers" and "Jesusland", aggressively promote evolution while refusing to permit any thought even of the possibility of a Creator, demanding the removal and suppression of all religious symbols and utterances, demanding at the same time that government subsidize blasphemous "art". Today's Leftover Left is bankrupt and, literally, "without a prayer".
8.8.2005 11:49pm
Bryan AWS (mail) (www):
Dean,

perhaps you are a jacksonian democrat. I understand they were very libertarian for their time.
8.8.2005 11:55pm
Sean Kinsell (mail) (www):
Jane:
"I really should say something intellectual and witty, but I grew up in a blue collar household in Brooklyn and I'm still trying to work out my unresolved childhood issues, so I'll just say: what a stupid MF."

Along the lines of what Jane said, what exactly are the childhood issues that attend on having been brought up in a union household? My father has been USW since I was a small boy, and if that means I have some ready excuse to spin crackpot social theories, I'll be happy to hear it.
8.9.2005 1:46am
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
I wrote:
"G. K. Chesterton and C. S. Lewis saw it that way also, that Mithras, Balder, Osiris, Dumuzi, etc., were types of the Christ. An extremely interesting and profound idea. And Frigga, Isis, Ishtar, Inanna, etc., were then types of Mary, the Queen of Heaven. I like that a lot better than the Jack T. Chick view that they were all devils, though I would not deny that some of the Gods such as Set or Moloch were devilish."

Theological correction: no "were" in this paragraph -- are. I should not use past tense for that which is eternal.
8.9.2005 3:31am
Tim_the Soldier (mail):
I'm still pissed at you Dean for not linking to Ara's blog. That, and the fact that Bush can do no wrong in your eyes (it seems).
8.9.2005 10:45am
Dean Esmay:
Be as pissed as you want, I don't link to fascist apologists and fascist propagandists. Nor have I any interest in associating with anyone who turns every conversation of any signifiant world event into a discussion of why he hates the current occupant of the White House, and accusing anyone who dares disagree with him as only taking that position because of his love for the President.

I'm just sorry I ever befriended the creep.

As for Bush doing no wrong: You want a list of things he's done wrong that I've mentioned on this blog? I can give you one, and maybe add a few more besides. It's not hard. We'll start with his position on the FMA, medical marijuana, and campaign finance "reform." Then we can get into his failure to take a tougher line on Syria, his lack of movement on helping Cuban refugees, his lack of movement on medical insurance reform, his continued support of some of the worst aspects of the VAWA, and more.

The difference for some of us appears to be that we don't expect to get everything we want from our officials--and that when we're at war, there's a duty we all have to help work toward victory, and to try our best to restrict our arguments to domestic matters or to give specific and constructive criticism of the war effort otherwise.

It's how I see things. Others don't. They disappoint me but there's nothing I can do about it.
8.9.2005 12:20pm
Patrick Chester (mail):
Why is it that the "Bush can do no wrong in your eyes" claim always seems to be really saying "you don't think this particular act by Bush was wrong so you blindly follow him" in a rather spiteful manner?
8.9.2005 3:59pm
Tom Hawkson:
Dean,

James Dobson is a kind, good man. If you think there is something vile about him, you've never listened to him. Go to his Focus on the Family web site. I was born in Missouri. Show me this reputed vileness.

I'm sick of people slandering James Dobson, and I won't tolerate it any more.

Yours,
Wince
8.12.2005 3:42am