Horrible News In London
Dean
Apparently the man the police shot in London yesterday was not connected to the terror bombings, according to the police, who admit to making a tragic error.
To be a little cold-hearted about it, given the circumstances this young man was a fool to be running from the police. That said, he probably counts as another victim of the terrorists--they might not have shot him if they hadn't been worried about another attack.
Related Posts (on one page):
- Horrible News In London
- Terrorist Takedown in UK
- Bastards
But remember, 50 some innocent people died last week in England. 80 or so died last night in Egypt. And thousands of innocent people have died in Iraq, some, I am sure, as a result of American bombs.
But this is a price we have to pay. 200 innocents might die so that 2 billion can live on in peace. Not a pleasant thought, but its reality.
Maybe the time will come when we can isolate the innocents from the violence, but I don't see it happening soon.
Thanks to the terrorists, the police will be taking fewer chances. I don't care if you feel like you're being unfairly profiled, or whatever. Let it happen, and let the wheels of the system turn. The more you resist, the more you look like a threat.
Is this right? Is this fair? No. But it's a way to stay alive. Thank the terrorists for reducing the choices open to the police.
Those police officers feel horrible right now; but faced with the same circumstances again, they had damned well better do the exact same thing.
And the clear understanding that failure to do so will result in natural selection voting you off the island.
I feel bad for the guy, but he did it to himself.
Ever drop of blood shed in this war from whatever immediate agency is the entire responsibility of the terrorists and their supporters...Michael Moore is more responsible for this man's death than the London police.
The moral relativism on display in this thread is grotesque.
Scotland Yard fucked up. They shot an unarmed man who was probably innocent at point-blank range. At least they have the cojones to admit it.
This doesn't invalidate the greater effort to find the bombers and bring them to justice. You all don't have to be so defensive. Stop blaming the victim.
From the story Dean linked:
The police had ample reason to believe he was a threat. And then he acted like a threat when he fled. I feel very sorry for him and his family; but he left the police no choice.
With the important caveat that this rule only applies in a free society (as Dean rightly points out), I say again: if the police shout "Stop!" you stop. The days when unarmed London bobbies were powerless to stop fleeing felons are gone, and people ignore that at their peril.
That isn't moral relativism. That's a fact of life when you're fighting terrorism.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
I will retract part of what I said: while I think the police made a terrible mistake, I do think it was understandable. Tensions must be terribly high in London right now.
But there's a fine line between forgiving the police and blaming the victim. You are blaming the victim. He did not whip out a gun or demonstrate that he had a vest full of dynamite. He got spooked by an armed, plainclothes police officer. In my mind, that is not an offense worthy of death.
There's also a line between "blaming the victim" and saying "the victim could have prevented this." That's what I'm saying: he could have surrendered for questioning, and he would still be alive. And if people don't learn that, then this incident will be repeated.
If I don't wear a seatbelt, and a drunk driver hits my car and I'm ejected and killed, the drunk driver killed me. That doesn't change the fact that I might still be alive if I had worn a seatbelt; and it's not blaming me to point that out.
It is now. Hopefully, no other innocent person will make that mistake again.
When terrorists are actively blowing up passengers on subway trains then ignoring police orders and running into a subway certainly is "acting like a threat". If he'd turned around and run the other way it's quite likely he'd still be alive.
The police were just doing their jobs. His blood is on the hands of the terrorists. And this is why it's wrong and dangerous to treat terrorists and "insurgents" like real soldiers instead of the monsters they are. Their cowardly actions rely on being indistinguishable from innocent bystanders. And their behavior is designed solely to maim and kill innocent bystanders, either directly as in the first London bombings or indirectly as with this incident.
BUT [here it is] I'm reminded that folks get shot by police in the US for less-cagey actions. And the police deny error and get off scot-free.
I don't know why this man acted in the way he did. Drugs? Fear? Mental defect? The only thing I'm sure of is that he reacted in the wrong way. Hopefully, the cops will learn better policing from the error and the populace will learn the cops are serious and cooperate.
It is akin to the few Americans who were killed and injured in Hawaii in the aftermath of the Pearl Harbor attack when poorly coordinated anti-aircraft fire fell upon American homes and business...the deaths of these innocent Americans was every bit as tragic as the death of this man in London...however, back in 1941 we didn't make an issue of it; it was, anyways, the Japanese who were ultimately responsible for the deaths.
There is a craveness abroad in our society these days - it should be remembered that back when we wrote our Declaration of Independence we declared that we resisted the demands of the Crown with "manly firmness"...now, "manly" is a weighted word in 2005 but, good God, can we please show a little bit of guts as our best and bravest put up with the really harsh reality of this war? No more fricking hand-wringing over the tragic incidents of war...keep the eye on the ball.
You are absolutely right. The tragedy will be if, through a weakening of our will*, a failure of our nerve*, we fail to carry this War to total victory. Our very survival is at stake.
(*The Ward Eichmanns, ad nauseum, in our schools and in our media, are doing everything they can to bring about such a weakening of our will, a failure of our nerve. They are the intellectual suicide bombers in our midst. I dare call it treason.)
This man, who was a legal working immigrant, who spoke good english, had a darker complexion, was wearing a large overcoat, not uncommon in London, left a house that was under investigation, probably unknown to him, was followed. He may have notice the men following him, and he may not have. He went to purchase a token for the subway, was ordered to stop, by nonuniformed officers, he choose to JUMP the turnstyle without a ticket, and run towards the train. Very suspicious behaviour, given the current situation in London.
The police acted correctly, and I hope they continue to activly search and destroy the network of cowards who choose to blow people up.
Given the facts stated here, the police did not make an error. They did exactly the right thing. What you and I have that they did not is time and hindsight. Police and the military do not have the luxury of time. They must act quickly, or many people die. This decision had to be made very quickly, probably in about the same amount of time it takes you or me to slam on our brakes.
I get very impatient with people who constantly question the actions of the personnel on the ground. We weren't there. We don't know. It wasn't our responsibility.
Let's save the Monday morning quarterbacking for situations where it is not harmful - like real Monday morning quarterbacking.
Yours,
Wince