Dean's World

Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.

The Modern Scarlet Letter

City Journal, normally a fairly sane conservative publication, has a piece up strongly arguing that anyone ever convicted of a felony is a felon for life, and should never be allowed to vote--with a lengthy rant about how allowing felons to vote will help Democrats and hurt Republicans.

While there is a certain irony to the notion that Democrats seem anxious to boost the convict vote because they know it will help them, I have to say I find Republican attempts to ban anyone who was ever convicted of anything to be, uhm, what's the word? Oh yeah: draconian.

What on Earth ever happened to the mentality in this country that once you'd worked off your sentence and paid your debt to society, you were a free man (or woman) and no longer persecuted?

I can fully understand denying the right to vote to people currently in the pen, or out on parole (since you're still technically in jail when you're on parole). But when your time's served you'r time's served, dammit. Why do you have to be considered a bleeding heart liberal to say, "look, enough is enough!?"

I have a number of friends who are ex-felons. And yes, I said ex- felons, because they finished serving their time years and years ago and are now productive, hard-working members of society.

What's next? We gonna start branding them on the face so we can identify them on the streets? Or maybe little armbands they all have to wear, yeah, that's a good idea...

Yeesh.

Posted by Dean | Permalink | Technorati Trackbacks
John Irving (mail):
Most states that deny a felon the voting franchise have an avenue of appeal.
6.13.2005 10:45am
Casey Tompkins (mail) (www):
Dean: pink triangles, perhaps?
6.13.2005 11:17am
IB Bill (mail) (www):
The problem at the core of the issue is this: Far, far too many crimes have become felonies.

I have no problem with felons losing their right to vote -- forever. But I do have a problem when too many things are called felonies.

The problem is the language has been degraded. Felon doesn't mean what it should.
6.13.2005 12:14pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
I agree with Dean completely. I say when your sentence is over, it's over. Period. You did the crime, you did the time, you're done. Dept paid. That should, by the way, include restitution to the victim of the crime, to whatever extent possible. By the same token, I say that until you've done your sentence, paid your debt, you should stay in prison until you're done. No parole, no furloughs (remember Willie Horton), no nonsense.

In other words, "truth in sentencing" cuts both ways.

The other point is, of course, well taken. If you were convicted of "sodomy" in many states before 6/26/2003, you were a felon. Branded for life because you had oral sex with your wife?
6.13.2005 1:30pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
"no furloughs (remember Willie Horton)"

At this point, some "progressive" will inevitably scream, as they did in 1988: "You're a racist! You're discriminating against poor Willie Horton solely because of the color of his skin!"

I reply: Nonsense! He was a convicted rapist and murderer and should never have been let out. Indeed, in my opinion, he deserved the death penalty. I have had it with Political Correctness.
6.13.2005 1:36pm
Jeff Licquia (mail) (www):
Disenfranchisement is a punishment subject to due process, just like the loss of liberty. I don't think there's an a priori case for a ban on permanent disenfranchisement, just as there isn't one for permanent loss of liberty (i.e. life in prison w/o parole).

That said, if we're going to let these people go and live in our society, we've got to given them incentives to be good members of society. Voting is one of those incentives. People with no say tend to value society, and its rules, less. Thus, I'd tend to support movement towards restoring the right to vote to felons after one's sentence is fully served.

But for some crimes, permanent loss of the right to vote is an appropriate part of the sentence. Voter fraud comes to mind, or corruption as an elected official.
6.13.2005 1:42pm
TLHeart:
Prison is a removal of the offender from society for punishment. Yet all violent felons, are stripped of the right to bear arms, and the right to vote for life, and possibly the right to travel.

Non-violent felons, may have these rights restored, after finishing their sentence, and filing the correct petion with the court. Those who have been convicted of "drug crimes" fall into this catagory.

A weapon does not have to be used, to have the crime be classified as a violent felony. The only recourse for a violent felon is to wait a minimum of 10 years after his sentence is completed, then petition the govenor of the state for a state crime, or the president of the US for a federal crime for a pardon. There are two types of pardons. One that restores the lost rights, and a full pardon, that restores the rights, and seals the record of the crime, so that it does not show up on background checks.

There is recourse for those who do choose to reenter society, and become full and productive citizens.

As far as the sex crimes registries around the country, they are a crock of crap.
6.13.2005 2:48pm
Robert Speirs (mail) (www):
Before worrying about this problem, I would like to know how many felons, especially violent felons, ever take advantage of the opportunity to vote in states where they are allowed to. I know in Florida the process of having your civil rights restored is extremely easy to go through, yet few felons ever apply. Many rights, such as the right to own property, to drive, to marry, are not taken away from felons. Why shouldn't those who have rejected citizenship by defying the laws all citizens abide by have to go through a "renaturalization" process like that immigrants go through? That said, there are too many laws and too many felonies, especially non-violent ones.
6.13.2005 3:01pm
BG_Doug (mail) (www):
I'm with IB Bill. The problem here is that traditionally "felon" implies something a lot more drastic than something like a drug dealer. The term has been degraded so lifelong punishment no longer seems to make sense.

Also, traditionally, such a person would be put to death. Prison and release for felons is a relatively recent societal innovation, based in a belief in mercy and the potential for rehabilitation.

It's a more complex problem than blanket statements about modern felons can address.
6.13.2005 3:45pm
Sigivald (mail):
What IB and BG said. If "felon" is defined back to its old meaning of someone who had committed an awful crime, then I don't see there's much problem with loss of rights with recourse to asking a Judge or the Governor for relief.

Punishment like loss of certain rights, after due process, and under reviewed color of law, is nothing either shameful (for the society imposing such a punishment, that is) or new.

Enough is enough? Loss of rights is part of the sentence; there's no commonly accepted principle that says the only possible punishment for a crime is fines or jail time, is there? Certainly I don't accept any such principle. (Though I do hold that punishments should not just be added on, or be extra-judicial, but that's back to due process.)
6.13.2005 4:36pm
David Mercer (mail):
Fortunately my little issue with LSD, the Grateful Dead and some cops was the WEEK before the cutoff for all arrest and conviction records in that county in CA being on their web accessable database(s).

And living in other States since the summer of '92, after my 120 days was done, has made it only show up when they are running a more expensive, in depth background check at a job or rental office. And not everyone asks, in which case you don't have to tell them.

But I haven't had the $10-20,000 it will take to get it dropped in CA: a few grand in court costs and penalties, lawyers fees, yada yada. Had the conviction been here in AZ, as a non-violent first felony all my rights but to use/own weapons would have been restored after 2 years automatically. But I have to get it cleared in CA.

I finished probation, have been convicted of NOTHING in the mean time (not even a traffic ticket!), started a number of businesses, and there are still jobs and networks I made with my own hands out there being productive.

The computer industry and academia for the most part do not give a damn, and in the dept. where I work right now it is almost a badge of honor (it's a pretty hippied out environment: I did time fightin' the man!), but I have to put up with Bush punching dolls and shit like that on everyone's desks, and I'm one of the very few there who is married. And I don't talk about my politics, at all.

So I've never voted in an election in my life, as every State I've lived in has disenfranchised felons, and I pled guilty when I was 19, so I've missed all 4 Presidential elections since then. I do indeed not feel very connected to our society in many, many ways.
6.13.2005 5:54pm
Ole Olson (mail):
FWIW, I have no problem with the loss of my right to keep and bear arms, or the loss of voting rights in some states (though in both states I've lived in since conviction there is no such prohibition). I don't like the problems my felony record causes me when I want to get a new job, but it's my own damned fault and I just deal with it.

What I don't like is the increasing government encouraged persecution.

But that's just me, I guess.
6.13.2005 7:43pm
Arnold Harris (mail):
I too would restore civil liberties completely for persons who have served their sentences. And I would get rid of the sexual offender registers, which I regard as cruel and unusual punishment. Restoration of civil liberties should include all the rights that I enjoy, including the right to keep and bear arms.

I have also come to the conclusion that the national strategy of locking up citizens for minor offenses related to drug use works no better now than National Prohibition stopped the liquor traffic during 1920-1933.

Probably I have commented before that there are parts of my own state, Wisconsin, where the only growth industries seem to be methamphetamine labs and prisons. Something is wrong here that is not truly addressable through any system of lockups.

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
6.13.2005 8:56pm
Ken McCracken (mail) (www):
The problem with this is that the Democrats are trying to restore the vote to felons on a national basis. This is something that has always been left up to the states.

Having the vote is an indicia of full citizenship, and it is important for rehabilitated felons to be invited back into society.

But a blanket amnesty coming from the federal government is just the wrong the way to go about it.

Also, isn't it odd that the Constitution says that impeachment can occur for 'high crimes and misdemeanors'?

There was a time when misdemeanors were considered to be far more serious than they are now - sort of the inverse of the term 'felony' these days, which now covers conduct not nearly as heinous as felonies in bygone eras.
6.13.2005 9:07pm
Akatsukami (mail):
"What on Earth ever happened to the mentality in this country that once you'd worked off your sentence and paid your debt to society, you were a free man (or woman) and no longer persecuted?"

It died when it was realized that the discharged felon was in no way reformed, but had merely been released to prey on the innocent again.
6.13.2005 10:00pm
Scott Harris (mail) (www):
I agree with Arnold.
6.13.2005 11:01pm
Zsallia Marieko (mail) (www):
Akatsukami-

The situation you describe is not one that is required to exist. It exists because American culture and society simply do not give a damn.

For a more pointed discussion of the topic allow me to direct you to a post I made some time ago. It seems oddly prescient given the current discussion.
6.13.2005 11:36pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
I agree with Arnold Harris and with Scott Harris's agreement with Arnold Harris. Excellent, both of you.
6.14.2005 2:28am
Phelps (www):
I agree with IB: the problem is that we have too many felonies. A felony was supposed to be a capital crime. In other words, if you were convicted of a felony and not hung from a high beam, then the court was showing you a mercy. You were lucky to get out with just losing your franchise and right to arms, as opposed to having your neck stretched.

Nowdays, on the other hand, we hand out felonies over anything we don't like. When possession of a relatively simple chemical compound (cocaine) that is going no place but the person's own nose is considered a felony, we have gone far, far past the original intent of the word.
6.14.2005 12:00pm
David Mercer (mail):
Zsallia- interesting post you linked. There are a few points about sentence length that I didn't see in there, but I was skimming, so they might have hidden from me.

Longer sentences for violent crimes have been the main thing that has brought down the violent and property crime rates. In such matters I'm about as law-and-order-ish as one could get. HOWEVER,

we have also increased sentences (and indeed what's a felonly) for victimless crimes, such as the drug laws. This destroys productivity, and transfers wealth directly into the pockets of court and law enforcement pockets, from everyone else via taxes. The amount of lost and reduced wages (and the tax base!) due to the drug war is astounding. Google around and see: the govts. own stats on this are the most damning, and comprehensive.

And then there is the very high percentage (the vast majority in most jurisdictions in the US now) of cases that are resolved through plea bargain, because the courts are so over crowded. Google something like 'destruction of the defense bar' to see how far even those with lots of money have had their personal rights eroded, all in the name of 'stamping out drugs'.

I'd just like those anti-Drug members of the Christian right, without whom prohibition would NOT stand a chance of continuing, to read Genesis 1:29 and Matthew 25, look Angel Raich in the eye, and THEN see if they can look me in the eye and say they support marijuana prohibition with a straight face.
6.14.2005 6:22pm
David Mercer (mail):
If we end the War on Drugs, we can not only bring just about all violent criminals to actual trial, we'll save more than enough to actually close the border and fight the war on terrorism without breaking the bank.

We can honestly only afford one or the other. And then felony can go back to meaning something again.
6.14.2005 6:24pm
Arnold Harris (mail):
David, for whatever it may be worth, you may be interested in knowing that it was the arguments you brought to my attention a couple of years ago, based on your experiences, and combined with some of my own research on American corrections policies and practices, that changed my mind about imprisoning large numbers of otherwise law-abiding citizens for drug use.

There are some things I would stick to out of philosophical merit, but other issues ought to be subject to re-examination as, hopefully, we all strive to lessen the abrasive characteristics of person to person contacts in everyday life in this great society.

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
6.14.2005 11:56pm
David Mercer (mail):
Thanks Arnold, its nice to know that one's typing has not all been for naught!

The shape of our criminal justice and educational systems does not bode well for the Republic. Nor does much other nonsense in the public sphere.
6.15.2005 1:50am