Dean's World

Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.

"Religion of Peace?" Splinter... Eye... Beam... You Know The Drill.

Reverend Sensing (always worth reading--no, seriously, always) recently took Muslims to task for abhorrent behavior--in this case, a group of Muslims who lynched a guy because they thought he'd burned a copy of the Koran.

Well, you know, I'm down with that condemnation. Of course I am. The only exception I took to any of Sensing's words were these two lines:

"Religious tolerance for thee, but not for me. I’ll start listening to Muslims giving me advice about religious toleraance when Christians can openly, publicly worship in in Saudi Arabia."

Oooh man! So, so close to something I couldn't disagree with. But, as I noted in the good reverend's comments, there is this article every Christian should click right here to read, written not long ago by Presbyterian lay theologian Stephen R. Haynes, which I quote briefly here:

WHAT CAN CHRISTIANS who want to remember Rwanda learn from this genocide? Most scholarly analyses ignore the religious dimensions of the tragedy, portraying the Hutu extermination campaign as an indictment of European colonialism or a metaphor for the dilemmas of post-cold-war foreign policy. But there are important exceptions. For instance, Timothy Longman’s contribution to In God’s Name: Genocide and Religion in The Twentieth Century documents the active involvement of church personnel and institutions in the genocide: 'Numerous priests, pastors, nuns, brothers, catechists, and Catholic and Protestant lay leaders supported, participated in, or helped to organize the killings,' Longman writes. And he remarks that more people may have been killed in church buildings than anywhere else.

Last I heard--anyone who wishes to correct me should do so--a substantial number of those butchered in the Rwanda genocide were muslims.

Now, in Rev. Sensing's comments, one learned fellow named Chuck Pelto took me to task a little, saying, "I do believe that more people have been slaughtered by atheists than by the ‘religious’ in the Twentieth Century....So, don’t pat yourself on the back too quickly, compadre."

Presumably, Chuck is not familiar with my writings on this subject. Perhaps I need to make a "definitive posting" on it and put it in my archives, although anyone who searches around knows my view on this. Clearly--and irrefutably--the greatest murderers of the 20th century were atheists. You need only add up the Communist body count. If you do so, then those of us who've said things like "religion is the opiate of the masses" need to hide our heads in shame.

Chuck on the other hand tried to add Hitler's body count to the atheists' horrendous, stupifying, 100 million+ total. But nope, that doesn't work. He wasn't an atheist. Neither was his regime atheist. Some try to pin his vile crimes on Christians, but that dog won't hunt either--Hitler's having used some Christian symbolism and rhetoric won't hide the fact that he was basically a pagan mysic trying to restore a perverse form of Asatru to Germany.

Which, come to think of it, makes the 20th century horrors come full circle: the atheists, the monotheists, and the polytheists all have their hideous monsters in their closets, now don't they?

But there is a ray of hope: We're all united in our hatred of the Jews.

It's good that we can all get together on something, isn't it?

;-)

More seriously: I've seen a good bit of Catholic-bashing this last couple of weeks. The elevation of the new Roman Catholic Pope seems to have brought a lot of that out. Especially from people who love to bring up religious persecution by the Roman Catholic Church. This brought to mind this fabulous article more people should read:

The Protestant Inquisition: "Reformation" Intolerance and Persecution, by Catholic theologian Dave Armstrong.

In it, Armstrong documents pretty much everything you Lutherans, Calvinists, and other papist-bashers ought to be apologizing to Rome for--if we're going to be in the business of cringing about our spiritual forefathers, anyay.

(Yeah I'm being flip but you should read it. Some of you guys who kick around the Catholics for the Inquisitions really need to shut up and learn the meaning of the words "forgiveness" and "humility.")

In closing, I'll mention something that Father Dan Madigan (a Jesuit, no surprise) wrote not long ago:

If one considers the history of warfare as a whole, the conflicts between Muslims and Christians pale into insignificance against the much bloodier conflicts waged between groups professing the same religion.

The history of the Muslim community has been marred since the beginning by internecine war – and continues to be so even up to our own times: East and West Pakistan; Iran and Iraq; Iraq and Kuwait; in Algeria, in Pakistan, in Afghanistan, in Somalia, in Indonesia to name only the most striking examples.

Virtually all the European wars up until our own time have been fought between rival groups of Christians. And if we think we have left that bitter history behind, let us not forget the 800,000 Christians murdered by their fellow Christians in Rwanda, or the Christian Serbs and Croats who fought one another as well as Muslims in the former Yugoslavia.

Indeed, anyone who knows history knows that America's First Amendment came into place because our founding fathers were afraid of the endless wars of one group of Christian against another that so many of them had escaped from in Europe.

Anyway, you can read Father Madigan's most-excellent piece by clicking right here.

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Kevin D:
I firmly believe that of all the sins man is guilty of, hypocracy may be the greatest.

I'm not calling you a hypocrite, Dean, far from it! Just in the brief history you've given I see a lot of hpyocracy going around - athiest and religionist alike.

But, like you said, we can all agree that the Jews have something to do with it.
4.26.2005 7:18am
Aziz (mail) (www):
I'm stunned. I hadn't known that about the Rwandan genocides.

I have argued that Islam is not a "religion of peace" - and neither should it be. Rather, it is a religion of justice. The mark of any justice is of course, the honor of its justices, and thats where the system has its Achilles Hell.. no religion, and no political system, for that matter, is immune.
4.26.2005 10:16am
Robin Munn (mail):
I don't know enough specifics about the Rwandan genocide, so this is going to be in generalities instead of specifics.

Anyone who supported those genocides was wrong, and any Christian priests, pastors, etc. who supported the genocides were especially wrong, because their duty lay in exactly the opposite direction.

Would I ever do such things? I hope, I pray, that I wouldn't. But I can't afford to forget that evil lurks in the human heart, and that I can't afford to trust in my own moral goodness, because I may have less of it than I think. I cannot allow myself to forget that I, too, in my natural state, am a sinful human being, and that it is only God's transforming power that can make me act justly.

The Rwandan genocide hits especially close to home for me since my home church in Illinois is part of the Anglican diocese of Rwanda under the leadership of Bishop John Rucyahana. (Incidentally, Bishop Rucyahana will be in Illinois on Sunday May 15th. If anyone wants to hear him speak about current events in Rwanda, including an orphanage established to care for children orphaned by the genocide, E-mail me and I'll provide details). And I have a good friend, who I've sadly lost touch with, from Rwanda. (This was after 1994, so I'm not worried that he may have died in the genocide). So I'm always interested to hear more about Rwanda.
4.26.2005 11:38am
Dean Esmay:
(By the way, in case anyone was wondering, Kevin D. is a buddy of mine and I can tell you his comment above was made in the same sardonic tone as my own on da jooz. In case it wasn't obvious.)
4.26.2005 11:45am
fhare:
My opinion is that organized religion isn't worth it. IT provides a way for people to not have think about the difficult questions intelligence brings to life. For a lot of people, it's far easier to say "It's GOD's Will" than to try to figure out why something happened, or to accept that we cannot know everything.
4.26.2005 12:01pm
Solomon Mason (mail) (www):
Those Crusades back in the day just wasn't on the bad ol' Muslims. The more I read about the Crusades, the more I'm shocked. And to think of the Rwanda massacre just makes you wonder at the massive hypocrisy of many religious leaders.
4.26.2005 12:04pm
Dean Esmay:
Pol Pot thought exactly the same thing. So did Stalin.

There's also the flip side to atheism: it lets us believe or rationalize whatever we want, with no one to answer to but ourselves. That's the danger there.

My point being not that atheists are bad people, but that a little humility would do us some good.
4.26.2005 12:05pm
B. Durbin (www):
My point being not that atheists are bad people...
Your point being that atheists are people, I believe, and subject to the same failings as the theists.
4.26.2005 12:37pm
Jeff Licquia (mail) (www):
I'm a bit lost. How, exactly, does the participation of Christians in the Rwanda genocide disprove or otherwise contradict Rev. Sensing's statement?
4.26.2005 4:32pm
Tom Strong (mail):
Pol Pot thought exactly the same thing. So did Stalin.

To be fair, I think fhare was advancing a view more skeptical or agnostic than atheistic. Stalin, Mao and the gang were all "strong" atheists, if I remember correctly. I may be wrong, though.

I don't mean to suggest that skepticism is better than faith (though I usually prefer it); humanity's sins of omission may very well outweigh our sins of comission. I do feel that more true, cautious skepticism would be good for our society right now. Especially among bloggers.
4.26.2005 6:10pm
Dean Esmay:
Jeff: It doesn't. I merely note that one of the thrusts of Sensing's piece was that muslims don't practice religious tolerance and oten commit atrocities in the name of their faith. My point is that Christians do this too, and although they've been worse about it in the past they still do it today.

The biggest point is Father Madigan's, though: historically, Christians and Muslims both spend far more time killing their own than they do those of other faiths. Part of that is probably due to ethnic tensions, another part being that we are often more furious with someone who agrees with most of what we say but takes a few important exceptions than we are with someone who radically disagrees.

Tom: My only response to you would be that skepticism is a good and healthy thing, but when it can quickly devolve into cynicism, and cynicism is cheap.
4.26.2005 7:16pm
antimedia (mail) (www):
Stalinists, Leninists and Communists are not atheists. They've simply replaced the God of the Bible with the God of the State. Both are religions, and if you examine the writings and arguments, both are defended with the same fervor and the same lack of reason.
4.26.2005 11:20pm
Dean Esmay:
So find me the atheist who hasn't substituted the spiritual Gods with some "religion" of his own--Marxism, Objectivism, general angry leftism, etc. The most common I've noticed is those who've chosen "anti-religion," i.e. condemnation of all religion, but most especially one in particular (whichever they were raised in, usually) to rail against and attack at every opportunity.

I was like that with Christianity at one time. I got over it.

Nevertheless: Marx was explicitely atheist. So were Stalin and Lenin and Pol Pot and Mao. They also were all seduced by the notion that human nature doesn't really exist and we are all--especially as children--infinitely malleable. About that they were and are utterly wrong of course. But it's part of what drove their madness.
4.26.2005 11:35pm
Jeff Licquia (mail) (www):
Ah, ok. That I agree with.
4.27.2005 1:49pm