Dean's World

Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.

New Rules, And Some Changes

From this moment forward, I will no longer be allowing comment accounts in which the commenter does not include a valid working email address and an actual human name for public display. No cutesy pseudonyms will be allowed.

For the moment I've decided to grandfather those of you who have comment accounts which do not display a real name. But from here on in, new registrants who do not supply something that at least looks like a person's real name will not be approved.

If you happen to be named something like "Jack" and don't want to give your last name, and someone else already has taken "Jack" for his display name, you can use an initial, or be mildly creative, like "Jack from Boston" or even "The Other Jack." But no "Jack Sprat" or "Jack Rabbit" or any of that. If you're going to be "Jack Straw from Wichita" you'd better be from Wichita and your last name had better be Straw.

I can't stop you from lying--if your real name is Susan Hanson and you want to go by "Farli Davroshe" I can't stop you and probably won't try. But "Super Sue" or "The Great Susan" will be right out.

I will also accept reasonable use of honorifics for display: "Mrs." or "Ms." or "Miss" or "Dr." if you wish to use these. I have no objection to "Mrs. du Toit" just to pick out a favorite commenter for example. But if you are "Sir Justin," you'd best be prepared to tell me that you are actually a knighted peer in some well-known country.

If you choose a singular first name, like "Sarah," I can live with it. I also have no objection if you wish to be "Tim D." or "Tim from New York" or "Tim from Ontario" or even something very moderately cutesy like "Tim the Soldier" or "The Other Tim." Initials, if you really want them, are allowed: "JMS" will probably be approved.

But nothing overtly cutesy--and I will be the sole arbiter of what counts as "cutesy." Mostly it should be obvious: You'd better be aiming to come off like an adult or I'm not approving you. If you want to be "Dr. Love" or "Tim the Sex Machine" don't even bother trying.

Furthermore, as I said, you don't have to display a public email address but you'd best supply me a private one that works and a name that doesn't look like you're playing games.

At some point I may ban even the grandfathered accounts. If I do this it will happen with very little notice. Thus if you have a cutesy display name right now, it may suddenly go away. So you might want to think about re-registering, or updating how your name is displayed.

There are a lot of reasons for this, and if you find this all anal-retentive that's your right. But it's the rule I'm setting from here on out.

In other news: Starting Monday, you may start seeing some other names cropping up on this weblog. They include names like Joy McCann, Mary Madigan, Michael Demmons, and a few others. I hope you'll give them all a warm welcome. I have always wanted this site to be an eclectic online journal of history, science, and philosophy--and since politics often involves all three, sometimes we discuss those things too. It just happens that I'm bringing in a few people whose work I respect to help me with that aim.

Related Posts (on one page):

  1. Look, Guys
  2. New Rules, And Some Changes
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Blog Jones (mail) (www):
Out of curiousity, why? Is this an anti-spam measure, or something else?
1.7.2005 10:54am
Mike (Formerly Walter Sobchak) (mail):
So how about the way I have mine now, just during the transition period? That way everyone will get to know the new names.
1.7.2005 10:57am
Dean Esmay (www):
To be blunt? Too many jerks. We need to be doing a lot of things, little and small, to get people feeling a bit more accountable about what they say and do here.

For a glimpse at what I'm talking about, click here. Just look at what it portends.

Online forums have been destroyed by far less.
1.7.2005 10:57am
Dean Esmay (www):
Mike (Formerly Walter Sobchak)

I can live with that Mike.

Honestly I could have lived with Walter Sobchak, just because 99 out of a hundred wouldn't recognize it as someone being cutesy. ("Mary Poppins" would have been right out the door though.)

That said, I like knowing that you're Mike.
1.7.2005 10:58am
Matthew B. (mail) (www):
Dean,

Your wish is my command. Sorry about the comment trash you've been forced to clean up.

I never minded people knowing my name; there are a fair number of bloggers that actually know it. But I've been a Physics Geek to people for a long, long time. Even to my wife. Anyway, I've updated my identifying info.
1.7.2005 11:11am
Dean Esmay (www):
Thanks Matthew. I appreciate it.

You can be "Matthew the Physics Geek" or something like that if you like. I'm not trying to be a hardass, I'm trying to get people to be a little more adult and a smidge more accountable. It's a little gesture, but in my experience little gestures can account for a lot.

Besides: My name really is Dean. So I don't think it's unfair to ask for at least as much in return.
1.7.2005 11:14am
urthshu (mail) (www):
I don't think its unfair or anything. I'll just note that there are many possible reasons for not using real names.
For myself, I'd prefer 1] not to have anything I write in cyberspace attached to my real name and available for search and 2] its easy to remember anyhow, since I'm the sole user of urthshu on the planet.
I understand the stipulation. Out of curiousity, had you considered other measures, like verification of email addresses or confirmation that the handle is consistent?
Oh, and thanks for grandfathering older names in. If I had to change I would leave, sad to say.
1.7.2005 11:30am
htom (mail):
I've been called "htom" or "HTom" since 1967 or thereabouts. There were seven "Tom"s on the staff of this campus radio station ... and since then I've been "HTom" or "HThomas" in real life, and "htom" online. It was my login name before there was Unix. The other label that I sometime use is "Otter Smith jr", an anagram of my real name; would you prefer that?
1.7.2005 11:35am
dave frey (mail) (www):
I think it's a good measure. Good for you for trying to keep things orderly and mature.
1.7.2005 11:42am
Debi (mail) (www):
I use my real name.

So many comment problems at most blogs these days....I totally understand your new policy.
1.7.2005 11:42am
Jay Solo (mail) (www):
Of course, people can be jerks under their real names too. There's no shortage of that. I can definitely see wanting a real e-mail address rather than things like a@b.com or even things that don't look like e-mail addresses.
1.7.2005 11:44am
Sharp as a Marble (mail) (www):
Well, hopefully my new change will suffice, at least for a time. If you simply want Robb Allen, fine with me.

And this is something I can completely agree with. I use SaaM or Sharp as a Marble mostly because that's my blog and, well, name recognition and all. But I have never, ever, ever had to 'hide' behind the internet. I've always forced myself to either use my name or at least attach a method of communicating with me directly. This has kept me from turning troll like and (usually) forces me to consider my position before I mouth off.

I loathe to delete comments on my site, but do if the language is abusive AND there is no contact information available. If you're too scared to post your email address / name you don't deserve the right to get nasty. I consider those people cowards.
1.7.2005 11:44am
Jay Solo (mail) (www):
FWIW I trust it's enough that you know my real name in full, URL, multiple e-mail addresses, AIM address were I ever using it these days, where I work, and possibly my home address, and that Jay is a component of my real name.
1.7.2005 11:47am
Sharp as a Marble (mail) (www):
Well, I thought that would change my display name, but it didn't work. I've tried to edit the info from 4 different browsers in 2 locations.
1.7.2005 11:48am
Bryan AWS (mail) (www):
So I'm not sure about my name. Technically, Bryan is my first name, but AWS is just the shorthand for my blog name "Arguing with Signposts." On the blog, my name is "Bryan S." which is part of my real name.
1.7.2005 11:48am
Mike (mail):
Okay, I think I made a change which can differentiate me from the multitude of Mikes out there.
1.7.2005 11:52am
Dean Esmay (www):
Urthshu: While I love the cleverness of your nom-de-plume, especially as it is such an obvious play on "Earthshoe," I would at least prefer that you go by "John Urthshu" or "DJ Urthshu" or something like that. I'm trying to cultivate a more adult-sounding attitude about such things. The anonymity thing is fun, but it also sometimes makes our forum seem more childish and more unaccountable than I want it to be. Total anonymity and use of silly surnames seems to encourage people to be jackasses.

I am not asking you to reveal personal info you don't want to reveal. But imagine this is Time Magazine or National Geographic: you say something, and you want it reprinted. Would National Geographic accept something from someone known only as "urthshu?" Give me at least something that doesn't smack of 15 year olds playing games.

Hey, in earlier years I used to go by simple names like "The Dissident" or "The Mad Elf" (when I was VERY young). I'm just trying to cultivate something that seems a bit more adult.

Htom: Look, I want people to read at the comments and not say, "this is a bunch of children." Htom is borderline, but I'd probably give it a pass. In fact, if you want me to just say it: Htom is okay. Still, I'd like it if you'd just be "Thomas" or "Thom" or "Thom from Australia" or "hTom the disc jockey" or something more along those lines.

Yes, it makes me sound anal-retentive. Deal with it.
1.7.2005 11:52am
Mike (mail):
Test.
1.7.2005 11:53am
dave frey (mail) (www):
Well, hang on. I need a clarification on the new rules. Does "include a valid working email address" mean we have to DISPLAY our valid working email address, or simply provide it to Dean when we register to comment? I don't mind giving my real name, but I see no reason I should have to make my email address known to every single person who happens by this site.

My email address is my personal, private contact information, no different than my phone number, and I think most people would find it ridiculous if Dean required us to post our real phone numbers on his site. I have no issue with giving my email to Dean, as the owner of the site, so he can contact me as a registered user if he needs to. But I don't see why the rest of you need, or are entitled to, my personal email address. Displaying it means I have subjected myself to potentially unwanted email from people I don't care to correspond with, and perhaps even harrassment from some psycho who happens to troll by here and pick up the addy.

Perhaps it sounds a little whiney and paranoid, but let me tell you why. Last year I got into a debate in blog comments somewhere else. Some jerk took my email address from there (he even admitted doing it) and used it to sign up for "newsletters" and "special offers" from several adult websites. Based on that incident alone, I ended up getting over 2000 porn spams a day and had to change my email address.

So as I said before, I have no problem giving Dean my email address, but I don't see any valid reason it needs to be displayed publicly.

Dean- what's the rule? Do we have to display our email publicly here?
1.7.2005 11:57am
Dean Esmay (www):
I think I said it right here:

...as I said, you don't have to display a public email address but you'd best supply me a private one that works and a name that doesn't look like you're playing games.

Was I not clear enough? I want an email address I can reach you by, and not some bullshit "stupidguy@biteme.net" address. But I will never (never ever EVER EVER) sell your address or give it to anyone who I do not know as a personal friend and confidant.

Spam is evil. I won't ask you to make yourself vulnerable to those fucks. But give me something I can reach you by.

I'm trying to cultivate an attitude of personal accountability is all.
1.7.2005 12:04pm
Dean Esmay (www):
Of course, people can be jerks under their real names too. There's no shortage of that.

Yes, of course.

I'm trying to avoid being too draconian in these things, and trying merely to cultivate a somewhat better attitude among commenters.

I'm sure someone is going to go into a huff and pledge never to come back here as a result of all this. So it goes. All I'm asking for is that you give me an email address that I can reach you by, and a name that is not obviously a joke.

I'm also grandfathering people, so even though I know there is no person named "Jay Solo" I can live with it.
1.7.2005 12:07pm
Xrlq (mail) (www):
Would National Geographic accept something from someone known only as "urthshu?"


Why not? I've been quoted in the L.A. Times, the National Review and the L.A./S.F. Daily Journal as "Xrlq." And a couple of centuries back, three guys who all called themsleves "Publius" pulled off an even greater accomplishment than that.

You may want to rethink your position as to bloggers who consistly use a single handle on their own blogs, and while commenting here and elsewhere. I could post under my real name, but what good would that do? I like to think that my handle means something to a fair chunk of your readers, who at least occasionally browse my blog, but my real name (Jeff Bishop) means nothing to them. Google it, and you'll find thousands upon thousands of irrelevant hits - and the few relevant ones will be years out of date. Google "Xrlq," and you'll find out more about me than anyone in his right mind would ever want to know.

The whole "real names equal civility" meme strikes me as highly suspect anyway. The worst Usenet flame wars I can recall almost always involved exchanges between people using their real names.
1.7.2005 12:08pm
urthshu (mail) (www):
The anonymity thing is fun
[....]
I am not asking you to reveal personal info you don't want to reveal. But imagine this is Time Magazine or National Geographic: you say something, and you want it reprinted. Would National Geographic accept something from someone known only as "urthshu?" Give me at least something that doesn't smack of 15 year olds playing games.

It isn't for "fun"

I'm not interested in being in NatGeo, nor would I be embarassed in the slightest if they used 'urthshu'.
It might very well be that *you're* interested in such mainstreamed exposure and hence want to make your blog more attractive through seriousness. There's nothing wrong with that, but if so, why not just say so?
I mean I can read that traffic report the same as anyone- you're popular. And I get that you see other blogs getting mentions that you don't always get. I sympathize. I only question whether its the naming conventions that are responsible, because sometimes its just a matter of happenstance, you know?
1.7.2005 12:09pm
dave frey (mail) (www):
Was I not clear enough?

Yes you were, I just totally missed it. Sorry.
1.7.2005 12:11pm
Dean Esmay (www):
If you simply want Robb Allen, fine with me.

Like I said, I'm grandfathering you, but still, I like "Robb" or "Robb Allen" or something like that.

I use SaaM or Sharp as a Marble mostly because that's my blog and, well, name recognition and all. But I have never, ever, ever had to 'hide' behind the internet. I've always forced myself to either use my name or at least attach a method of communicating with me directly. This has kept me from turning troll like and (usually) forces me to consider my position before I mouth off.

I am DEEPLY appreciative of this attitude.

You say you're having technical problems changing your display. Let me see if I can help with that.
1.7.2005 12:11pm
Dean Esmay (www):
I can live with "Brian AWS" no problem.
1.7.2005 12:11pm
Jason the Samurai (mail) (www):
I just registered 5 minutes ago (literally). Then I read this. oops. I changed to "Jason the Samurai" and I hope that's ok (No, I'm not Japanese or adopted into a clan. I'm as white as the driven snow. But yes I practice some of the arts - kyuudo is a bit out of my league - and attempt to adhere to the applicable arts.) I just thought "Jason the math major" would sound stupid. meh
1.7.2005 12:27pm
Phelps (www):
I've written about this before, and I think my thoughts on anonymity vs psudeonymity and the merits and limitations of it are clear. If I were to use any name other than Phelps here, I would become anonymous, and I won't do that.

Civil association means that you can tell me to leave, or I can leave on my own. I believe that I understand your terms. I want to make it clear that my terms are I am Phelps or I don't come back.
1.7.2005 12:31pm
urthshu (mail) (www):
From Phelps:

I have another good reason to publish under a pseudonym. I work in one of the largest law offices in Texas. Anything that I published under my given name would not only reflect (fairly or unfairly) on the firm, but would also come under the entangling ethics laws of the Texas Bar -- and I'm not even an attorney. Once my name is linked to the firm, I have a (just) duty to allow the firm to vet anything I publish as long as I am associated with them.
Yes!!!! There are planty of toe-the-line-or-get-out careers. I don't want to mix my cyber and meat lives.
1.7.2005 12:41pm
Dean Esmay (www):
XRLQ: You are one of the best of the best, so even if I'd prefer you go by "Ryan" or "Jack" or "Susan," I value you you too much to just show you the door.

Phelps: I can live with "Phelps." I can't live with "The Mad Monk" or "Mad Witch" or any of that. Call it a personal weakness. I'm just trying to cultivate an attitude. I'm sure you know what I mean, based on your very thoughtful article on the subject.

Oh by the way, Solomon, if you're out there and reading, I can live with "Solo." You too, Irk and Ith. I know you, you're cool. ;-)
1.7.2005 12:42pm
Dean Esmay (www):
Urthshu: Look man. I'm not trying to implement the perfect solution to all issues. If you want to be "Mike Urthshu" or "Susie Urthshu" or whatever, I'm fine with it.

I'm trying to cultivate an attitude here, not "the perfect solution."
1.7.2005 12:52pm
Dean Esmay (www):
"Jason the Samurai" is a bit much for me but I can live with it.

See above for my attitude on same.
1.7.2005 12:54pm
Paul Burgess (www):
Well, my name really is Paul Burgess. I've never made any secret of who I am, where I live, or what job I work at. And by dint of Google, anyone who wishes can easily find out everything they ever wanted to know about me, and more.

A generation ago, mine would probably have been one of those "toe-the-line-or-get-out" careers. In today's world, it is actually one of the less so, at least for those of us in the Liberal Protestant denominations. Those who already know me out here in meatspace know who I am and what I'm like, and I'm much the same person face-to-face as I am online. At worst, my more lurid comments here on Dean's World have merely ensured that I will never serve in a parish which is way less mellow or laid-back than the parish where I'm presently located. Which is just fine with me. ;-)

I can see why some people might wish to comment under a pseudonym. I don't pretend to speak for them; I'm speaking only for myself.

Some years back, I did used to post to Usenet under a pseudonym. In hindsight, there was probably no reason for me to have done so. Then again, anyone who's ever frequented Usenet will doubtless understand.
1.7.2005 1:16pm
urthshu (mail) (www):

Urthshu: Look man. I'm not trying to implement the perfect solution to all issues. If you want to be "Mike Urthshu" or "Susie Urthshu" or whatever, I'm fine with it.
Just not what I always use, or don't comment at all, right? Do I get another choice? Comment less? Comment with "Mark" at the bottom?
I'm only grilling you becoz I'm trying to make a final decision here, Dean.
1.7.2005 1:16pm
IB Bill (mail) (www):
I'm guessing I'm grandfathered. Thanks.

I have good reasons, professional ones, for not using my own name. My political and religious opinions are out of the mainsteam (though I think they're reasonable :)) and my employers deserve a clean byline.

Not only I have been IB Bill on most blogs, but on certain blogs I've been Troll King, Woden; Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad; and Yo Mama's Skirts and Mensch. Usually I stick to one name per blog, though, to avoid confusion. I've pretty much abandoned all the other names and stick with IB Bill right now.

I started with Bill H. over at Rachel Lucas's old site but immediately got an email from another Bill H. informing me that he was Bill H. and there would be confusion. So I went with IB Bill after my blog.

Maybe I'll just legally change my name to Troll King.
1.7.2005 1:30pm
Jason the Samurai (mail) (www):
Dean: Thanks for the pass. The URL has real names and real contact info. But "Jason" was already taken (apparantly). Thusly, I'll do everything I can to make sure I don't come across as a 15 year old playing games.
1.7.2005 1:45pm
Robb Allen (mail) (www):
Dean, I had originally put Robb Allen (aka Sharp as a Marble) as my handle. Kind of a double whammy - satisfy your rules and the name recognition. What is there is fine though.

And I am so glad someone finally pointed out exactly how the @!#% urthshu is pronounced!
1.7.2005 2:00pm
Robert West (mail) (www):
I've been aphrael in various online fora for well over a decade now, and so I sympathize with the "if I use my real name I suddenly become anonymous" complaint. But I've always posted here as 'Robert West', not 'aphrael', because the tone of this site has always suggested that psuedonyms, while allowed, would serve as an impediment to being taken seriously. The culture here seemed to frown upon it; and conforming to the local culture is just as important online as it is in the real world.

Dean - if your usage statistics are accurate, then your daily average hit numbers are above those currently seen at www.kuro5hin.org. Given the disaster that happened there, acting now to preserve the elements of conversational culture which you wish to preserve is both wise and timely.

1.7.2005 2:03pm
caltechgirl (www):
Well, as someone who has a had an internet-saavy quasi stalker, I would prefer to remain relatively anonymous. I'm not hiding from anyone else, but my own name is unique enough that even an idiot googling it will find me.....

I'll have to think about it. Like Bill, I would prefer to keep at least some part of Caltechgirl since that's the name I blog under and it really does describe me, that and I suspect that there are others who have the same name (at least the version I would use)
1.7.2005 2:04pm
Bryan Costin (mail) (www):
I think this is a good idea. I was just visiting another blog where the comments section has been polluted by spammer idiots with obscene and insulting psudonyms. My full name, Bryan Costin, is on my blog and many other places. I usually go by Bryan C or 5KVGhost (5000 Volt Ghost, a play on a fondly remembered Scooby Doo episode) but that's more out of habit than any desire for anonymity.
1.7.2005 2:38pm
Chris Lansdown (mail) (www):
Sharp (Rob),

Can you email me and tell me what happened? (I don't want to let problems with the software go unresolved.)
1.7.2005 2:44pm
Chris Lansdown (mail) (www):
Dean,

If I were you, I'd allow pseudonyms which are consistent with blogs. E.g. Jane Galt, Xrlq, IndustrialBlog Bill, etc. are not just anonymous handles but actual pseudonyms with real consistent people behind them with actual reputations and such.

They come in varieties, of course. I think that "Industrialblog Bill", or maybe "Bill of Industrialblog" fits in just fine not only with your rules but what you're going for.

And, as you point out, no one is stopped from coming up with more creative pseudonyms. Caltechgirl could as easily be "Amber Heatherly" as whatever her real name might be.

Incidentally, a note to all, the limit on names is fairly long (I forget what it is, but it's something like 40 or 60 characters), so if you want to do "Harry Frankworthington (LicksAPundit)" you can; that might be the best compromise between a more normal naming scheme and tying in to blog personas (as some people have already stumbled on).
1.7.2005 2:50pm
Rosemary Esmay (www):
I think that Caltechgirl should be Grandfathered since she's a blogger known as CTG and I know her real damn name and I'm pretty sure she is okay - since I gave her our home address and all. :-)
1.7.2005 3:11pm
Arnold Harris (mail):
I began life as Arnold Harris 70 years ago. I signed up two years ago or so to comment on this blogsite as Arnold Harris. I surely will die as Arnold Harris. So I guess I grandfathered myself the right way.

And, by the way, there really is a village of Mount Horeb WI, I live out in the country some six miles from there, and it's where all four of my kids went to school.

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
1.7.2005 3:16pm
caltechgirl (www):
Thanks Rosemary. You have mine too, unless you threw away the envelope :)
1.7.2005 3:19pm
B. Minich (mail) (www):
Question: Does B. Minich work? I figure it does, but I'd like to be sure.

Its less "cutsey" than my blog name (B. Minich, PI), but still conveys who I am.

And yes, my first initial is B, and my last name is Minich.
1.7.2005 3:37pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
Most interesting this all is. As for me, I've used the name that's on my birth certificate in all my correspondence and other matters, I use it on my blog, and I've used it in every one of my postings ever since I got on the Internet back in the mid-1990s. I used to have a long descriptive title after my name for a while due to a sort of running in-joke we all had here quite a while ago, but I've dropped it. I still use a long descriptive title after my name in Eric Scheie's Classical Values, and a shorter title on the Queen's blog. Dean has my e-mail address, as do a number of commenters here, and it's on my blog.

Jeff Bishop is an excellent name, as are Robb Allen and Bryan Costin. "Xrlq" isn't on anybody's birth certificate unless his parents are from another planet, but I can see why he, or other commenters here, use such names for professional or other non-troll reasons. People's circumstances differ enormously. "Catch 22" and "Wince and Nod" are good trustworthy people who have been commenting and blogging for a long time. They clearly have good reasons for using their pseudonyms. I'm glad Dean will grandfather them. I'm glad Paul Burgess and Arnold Harris and Mark Noonan are free to use their real names. Given everything, I prefer real names, and I can see why Dean does too.

Obviously, Dean has been having problems with trolls even after installing comment registration, and so he's tightening things up a bit. Dropping or reducing the silly names will give these comments more seriousness and accountability. Insisting on having (though not displaying) real e-mail addresses is a must.
1.7.2005 3:39pm
Jay Solo (mail) (www):
Yep, we know Caltechgirl's real name and address too and vouch for her 100%. I think she has good reason to have a pseudonym.
1.7.2005 3:45pm
Jay Solo (mail) (www):
Besides, there is another blogger who shares her real first name. When Deb refers to CTG by her real name, there's always a split second of dissonance on my part while I register which person of that name she means.

Kind of Like Rob and Rob. Do I mean Rob Smith, or Rob May? (Not that this matters when people use full names or descriptors, but I am ignoring that detail for the sake of rambling.

Whereas there is only one Dean and one Rosemary.
1.7.2005 3:54pm
invadesoda (mail) (www):
Interesting. Well, I'm grateful you allow comments at all. Even if you end up banning the grandfathered accounts, that's more generous than banning comments altogether, which some high-profile blogs are doing.

Having been fired by an IT Director because she was from a Unix background and didn't know what a C: drive was, I have a well-founded paranoia that one of the 1000 VP's I work with might will get me canned for my political views, so I feel the need to blog anonymously or not at all.

Well, if you end up banning the grandfathered accounts, I will just take out the www link when I re-register. Not too big a deal.
1.7.2005 4:22pm
John Irving (mail):
I use my real name, even though I could be accused of otherwise. . .
My email has changed though, and I cant get it to recognize the new email.
1.7.2005 4:27pm
Bithead (mail) (www):
I've never made any secret of who I am... (Chuckle)
1.7.2005 4:58pm
Michael Demmons (mail) (www):
There are also those who would prefer to not have Internet searches done on their names.

Some people work for very liberal or very conservative organizations. If a search is done, say, on Michael Demmons, and a comment shows up somewhere where I give an opinion agreeing with abortion or the death penalty or whatever, it could have an effect on my job.

That's an awful position to put someone in just to be allowed to comment on a blog, in my opinion.

On the other hand, I am in complete agreement with a person's right to control how their blog works. If Dean wants to ban nicknames, that's his right. I think it might cut down on some good conversation, however.

I have learned a lot in the past few days from Caltechgirl about HIV and AIDS, If she and others go away because they cannot comment anomymously, then the conversation suffers.

When it comes to dealing with trolls, I would rather do that than ban people I thought added to the conversation.
1.7.2005 5:22pm
caltechgirl (www):
I wonder if the answer isn't to require a real name and email address to register, but allow nicknames to be displayed in comments. As long as Dean is willing to put in the time to monitor these things (which could be quite a bit, I suppose) it might solve some of these issues.
1.7.2005 6:05pm
Highway (mail) (www):
Test for me. I don't particularly like the idea, but I'll go along. I try to keep the pseudonym because it's so close to my actual work. But there are so many Dan's that I hope this is descriptive enough.
1.7.2005 7:23pm
triticale (mail) (www):
One of the reasons I blog nicknonymously is that the best known person who shares my first and last name, a second tier celebrity who has pretty much used up his fifteen minutes, is a total jerk, and I have occasionally found myself tarred with his brush.

The other reason is that, as others have mentioned, there can be issues at work. I used my true name when Usenet was my forum, and came close to losing a job over a post which upset someone. I think that what saved me was that said someone was sufficiently clueless as to refer to a "chat room" and I was able to swear on a stack of GSM standards documents that I had never participated in a chat room, altho I knew what post was the issue and, altho I meant well, I was guilty as charged.

BTW, shouldn't females who post nicknonymously be grandmothered in?
1.7.2005 7:30pm
Dean Esmay (www):
I really have no idea why people find this complicated.

I said initials are fine. I said a pseudonym is fine as long as it's not cutesy. I said honorifics are fine.

This means "B. Minich" is fine. "Mrs. du Toit" is fine. And if you'd asked me I'd have thought that Urthshu was an actual name, Indian or Pakistani or something like that.

The more you try to explain the more confused people get I guess.

More than one fine internet forum has been destroyed by excess popularity. I'm trying to cut down on that danger. If you're skeptical, too bad. It's Dean's World baby. ;-)
1.7.2005 7:56pm
triticale (mail) (www):
By the way, you will be glad to know that I will not be inviting Jonas Love, MD to post here, as he does his commenting under the handle of, oh horror, Dr. Love.
1.7.2005 7:57pm
silvermine (mail) (www):
I just had this discussion on a mailing list I'm on. Weird how these things tend to come up in multiple places at the same time, isn't it?

Oddly enough, there I do use my real name, but I feel halfway comfortable with it because it isn't archived. (However that doesn't make me think there aren't people archiving emails or who knows what else.) If I were to sign up again, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't use my real name. My personal opinions tend to run completely opposite of those in my current chosen profession. They *do* run google searches on your name and they *do* decide not to interview you because of things you've said. Furthermore, I have been known to discuss my family, including my son, and I don't feel I have the right to put his name online. He has a bit of a uniaue name, and the last thing he needs in 10 years to to have a bunch of idiot teenagers googling his name and finding out things they shouldn't know.

It's your choice, and I'm not huffy at all. I understand some people have the need to see real names, even if I don't understand it. Honestly, it would be easiest for those of us wanting anonymity to just make up a name and pretend it's ours. But I respect you too much to do that.

Of course, I also grew up using a pseudonym on BBSes, so I don't find it odd at all. :)

Honestly, I think a lot of people will regret the things they've posted online. Especially kids these days. I'm all for freedom of speech, but who on earth wants everything they've ever said archived for the rest of their life, for the entire world to see?

Jerks will be jerks, no matter the name.
1.7.2005 7:59pm
John Eddy (mail) (www):
I think people are missing the point, here. Dean is not demanding you post under your real name. He is asking that you avoid what he defines as “cutesy” nicknames in his comments. So, if I decided to change my comment handle to Raphael Dominguez, that would be okay, but if I made it “Lord of The Outer Darkness”, that wouldn’t. (Have I got that right?)

The desire is to present people with a comment section that looks like a real discussion, and not a comic book. The discussions on this sight stand up well against anything you might choose to compare them to, but they still descend into sometimes-nasty corridors. Furthermore, some of the nicknames are guaranteed to make the non-bloggers who fist visit roll their eyes. Comment registration seems to have ameliorated that a bit. Requesting that people first choose a real-sounding name and second provide a verifiable e-mail account is a way of both fostering a desired mind-set and holding people accountable. If they misbehave (troll-like behavior) he has a method to contact them and ask them to cool it, rather than just enacting a reflexive ban.
1.7.2005 8:03pm
Dean Esmay (www):
Triticale: One of the reasons I blog nicknonymously is that the best known person who shares my first and last name, a second tier celebrity who has pretty much used up his fifteen minutes, is a total jerk, and I have occasionally found myself tarred with his brush.

Ah, so you're the OTHER Kofi Annan, eh?

BTW, shouldn't females who post nicknonymously be grandmothered in?

I'm a notorious sexist so I must insist that they be grandfathered. ;-)

By the way, what's wrong with "John Triticale" or "T. Triticale?"

John: So, if I decided to change my comment handle to Raphael Dominguez, that would be okay, but if I made it “Lord of The Outer Darkness”, that wouldn’t. (Have I got that right?)

Yep. It's not like I'm asking you to FAX me your license or anything.
1.7.2005 8:17pm
cardeblu (mail):
I don't know if cardeblu would be considered cutesy or not. It's pretty close to my actual name if you just look at it. Hint: The first is not always in the beginning.

You can call me car.
You can call me card.
You can call me deb.
You can call me deb lu.
You can call me blu.
You can call me lu.

...just don't call me Francis. ;)

I'll change it if you want, Dean.
1.7.2005 8:54pm
Monomer:
I'm was going to put up my FBI file, but everyone has that already, so I hear and will obey, my esteemed Master.
1.7.2005 9:26pm
urthshu (mail) (www):

I think people are missing the point, here. Dean is not demanding you post under your real name. He is asking that you avoid what he defines as “cutesy” nicknames in his comments. So, if I decided to change my comment handle to Raphael Dominguez, that would be okay, but if I made it “Lord of The Outer Darkness”, that wouldn’t. (Have I got that right?)
No, I got that.
Now flip it around: I tell Dean he's gotta post under "Deano-deano-bo-beano" from now on. Is that the name of his blog? Is that the name he wishes to be known by?

Ah. Forget it. Delete my account.
1.7.2005 9:27pm
Sean Kinsell (mail) (www):
"Triticale: One of the reasons I blog nicknonymously is that the best known person who shares my first and last name, a second tier celebrity who has pretty much used up his fifteen minutes, is a total jerk, and I have occasionally found myself tarred with his brush.

Ah, so you're the OTHER Kofi Annan, eh? "

Damn you for getting in there before me, Dean--I was going to make an Ashton Kutcher joke. Of course, since I use my own name, triticale would probably have hunted me down and killed me for it.
1.7.2005 10:02pm
Sherlock (mail) (www):
I don't post here toooooooo often, but in case I want to in the future:

You mentioned Jack Sprat won't work. Well my last name is Sherlock; most of my friends and people I know have referred to me this way for years. I get the "Sherlock Holmes" jokes in about a thousand variations, but that is actually my name. No attempt to be funny.

Is that all right?
1.7.2005 10:57pm
Richard C. Wade:
You show my account as Quantumthnk, which I've used for years but when I post my real name is posted, Richard C Wade, am I OK?
1.7.2005 11:33pm
alphadog:
I just joined maybe a few days ago to post on the brain teaser post. Been coming and going, but coming more and more often. Now, I have to figure out if I am cutesy or not. That's a lot of pressure for a newcomer. :)

Is my nick "cutesey"? I have to admit I am at a loss to know what is cutesy and what isn't.

I guess cutesey is in the eye of the blog owner, so I'll leave it to Dean...
1.7.2005 11:53pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
Mike:

I had always thought your name was Walter Sobchak. I have no idea who the other Walter Sobchak is.

Arnold Harris wrote:
"And, by the way, there really is a village of Mount Horeb WI, I live out in the country some six miles from there, and it's where all four of my kids went to school."

Yes, Dean once linked to something about Mount Horeb, WI., and I did a Goodle search of Mount Horeb, WI., to see how it compares to my own home town of Monmouth, OR.. Two of my favorite places in the world.

Dean wrote:
"If you happen to be named something like "Jack" and don't want to give your last name, and someone else already has taken "Jack" for his display name, you can use an initial, or be mildly creative, like "Jack from Boston" or even "The Other Jack." But no "Jack Sprat" or "Jack Rabbit" or any of that. If you're going to be "Jack Straw from Wichita" you'd better be from Wichita and your last name had better be Straw."

Jack T. Chick!
1.8.2005 12:37am
Dean Esmay (www):
Sherlock: I believe you.

Alphadog: So, what, your name is Tony Alphadog or something?
1.8.2005 12:52am
Dean Esmay (www):
Urthshu, I told you you were grandfathered right?

Oh heck, keep Urthshu. It really does just sound like a foreign name anyway.
1.8.2005 12:55am
Ironbear (mail) (www):
"At some point I may ban even the grandfathered accounts. If I do this it will happen with very little notice. Thus if you have a cutesy display name right now, it may suddenly go away." - Dean


I'll save you the future trouble in my case. I'm going to excercise "The Phelps Option". ;)

Go ahead and delete my comment registration/membership here and my info, please. I may continue to read - I'll just choose to not comment.

[Or if I have commentary, I can do it via link and blog entry]

I've been going by this nick for over 5-6 yeats now in various parts of the web... after it subsumed earlier Usenent and BBS nicks of mine like "Mr.Collache" and "Spectre17" et al. I see no reasons to change that now just because I hapen to be a blogger in addition to a forum runner and site admin.

It suits me. Suit you?
1.8.2005 1:52am
Joy McCann (Attila Girl) (mail) (www):
Hi. I believe my name is displaying as Joy McCann (Attila Girl). That's how I wanted it set up, so people would have a reference--both in terms of what I've said here (and elsewhere) in the past, and in terms of my blog being Little Miss Attila. There has to be continuity, so people know both my real name and who I am. Attila Girl/Little Miss Attila is my "brand," so that's where the real accountability is: Joy McCanns are a dime a dozen (try Googling it; you'll get several, only one of which is me).

I understand what Dean's trying to do. I do have a small concern along the lines of the issue others have raised: unfortunately, some of our blog names are a little "cutesy," and those are our true online identities.

As a few of you know, I was staying strictly private with my legal name for some time. At the time I started blogging, I had just received a nasty, anonymous phone message from someone who claimed to have known me in high school. This was followed up by a nearly identical letter. My husband, hyper-cautious, convinced me that this might turn threatening, and I put the tape into a file folder, along with the letter (sealed into a Ziplock bag, so if it did turn into a case of stalking, the cops might be able to lift prints from it).

And I'm a 5'1" female whose husband sometimes has to go out of town for business trips (and, we're adopting, so we're required to keep any firearms on the premises locked up--with the ammo locked up separately; don't get me started on that). I really did not want to risk getting stalkers on my case--particularly as I was blogging (on occasion) about my interior life, which includes my sexuality.

The issue here could be theoretical, but at that time, not ready to "come out," I couldn't have used even my first name safely ("Joy" may not be that unusual, but there are only three of us in my town of 20,000 people). So if Dean had instituted this policy a year ago, I might have had to lie and call myself "Ann Attila" or something. And that would have been more problematic when I eventually did come out.

Just some (wordy) food for thought.

Bottom line: I do think a little flexibility might be called for when it comes to blog names, which are people's "brand identities," and the names to which their reputations are linked. I do believe the ideal solution is "John Doe (of CutesyBlog)," but I'm not positive that will cover every single case.
1.8.2005 2:20am
Dean Esmay (www):
I can only repeat what I've already said, Ironbear. If you're in you're grandfathered even though I've made my preferences known. If you want to stay, stay, if you want to go, go.
1.8.2005 3:28am
Ironbear (mail) (www):
"I can only repeat what I've already said, Ironbear." - Dean


No need to repeat anything - my reading and comprehension skills are just fine, thank you. I understood the post on first read - and you'll note that I wasn't one of the posters asking "Why?" It's *your* site. I don't care what the reasons behind the new policy are - that's irrelevant to me. If they're sufficient to you, then that's good enough.

I'm not arguing with your new policy, Dean. As far as I'm concerned, it is your site, and you have the right to make whatever choices you wish with it, just as I can with mine. Without needing to explain or justify it to me or anyone. No makey.

I'm exercising my right to not participate.

"If you want to stay, stay, if you want to go, go." - Dean


Not that simple. If it were, I'd have just shrugged and moved on.

I'm not seeing a link on your sidebar to "Remove my membership" nor to remove my info. I doublechecked that in IE just in case it was an Opera formatting glitch preventing me from seeing one the first time. Doesn't seem to be.

Your [change infomation] link doesn't seem to be working for me: it throws an error when I attempt to edit my info. I used your site messaging to send you an email asking you if you would change my displayed email addy recently, or if you could troubleshoot the error. I never recieved an answer.

So - I'm asking again: I would like you to delete my membership from your site. I said "please" the first time.

Must I "tell you three times" to make the magic happen? :)

Or is it a case where you cannot do so? If so, then an explanation of why not would be appreciated.
1.8.2005 8:05am
Mike C (AKA Walter Sobchak) (mail):
Honestly I could have lived with Walter Sobchak, just because 99 out of a hundred wouldn't recognize it as someone being cutesy.

A shame in and of itself, that so few have experienced the peerless comedic tour de force that is Lebowski. Oh, cruel world! Well, as the fella says... the Dude abides.
1.8.2005 9:33am
triticale (mail) (www):
Cutesyness is such a subjective parameter. In my case, for example, the fact that my nickname is based on my admiration for a grain which combines the best characteristics of its ancestors, rather than being the Start Reck reference many people presume, should be a point in my favor.

By the way, Ashton Kutcher is orders of magnitude closer than Kofi Anon, altho in fact my true name doesn't sound anywhere near as made up or cutesy.
1.8.2005 10:51am
Dean Esmay (www):
Ironbear: Sorry I didn't get your note.

It's a pain in the ass for me to delete an account. If you don't want to use your account, don't use it, and eventually it'll be cleared out whenever we finally get around to writing the script that cleans out old accounts that have not been used in X days.

By the way, given your Native American background, I actually don't object to Ironbear. But whatever. The new rules offend you somehow, so... just don't comment again, and the account will disappear eventually.
1.8.2005 12:06pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
That's too bad. I've always liked Ironbear's comments. I like the name Ironbear, too. Ironbear, I hope you will at least continue to comment in Eric Scheie's Classical Values.
1.8.2005 1:30pm
BloodSpite (mail) (www):
Crud I really hope you aren't going to the bar the door on me as well.


Although I hardly think my nick would be considered cutesy unless your a axe murder in South Texas on cheap acid.

I prefer using a psedo mainly because I have a wife and kid and I really don't feel like having crosses burning in my yard.

That and I've used my nick since 1996.

Doesn't give me anymore claim to fame than the next guy, but meh, if you hate it, and want to kick me for it, I'll see what I can do to oblige.
1.8.2005 11:01pm
maor (mail):
'By the way, what's wrong with "John Triticale" or "T. Triticale?"'

I don't get it. If "Triticale" is an acceptable last name, and you can go by your last name ("T. Triticale"), then what's wrong, or even unusual, about calling yourself "Triticale"?

(Maor is actually my name, just for the record)
1.9.2005 7:06am
Mike C (AKA Walter Sobchak) (mail):
Steven:

The "other" Walter Sobchak is a character in a hilarious movie called The Big Lebowski. You should check it out if you get the chance. And don't let your first viewing determine whether you like it or not, because most people (including me) don't particularly like it the first time they see it.
1.9.2005 2:43pm
Dean Esmay (www):
I didn't like The Big Lebowski the first time I saw it either.

My friend Moe Freedman urged me to see it again. I found the notion dubious but he loaned me his copy and I did.

You know, that really is a very funny movie.
1.9.2005 3:28pm
Pril (mail) (www):
hrm i hope pril is all right. It's 4/5ths of my name and what i blog with. I think i registered with my spam email address, but i also think i have emailed you, Dean, with the one i answer. if there's an email prob, heh, i am the latin armpit at the side of the harbor. :)
1.9.2005 4:14pm
Jim Ausman (mail):
I think your idea is right on Dean.

I think a lot of the unnecessary nastiness is due to people being free to express the worst side of themselves without fear of retribution. People say things behind the cover of anonymity that the would never have the guts to say face to face to another person.

It happens on the Internet all the time and even here occasionally.

There are occasional legitimate reasons for people to use anonymity or psuedo anonmity, like in whistle blower cases, but the majority of these people are just being excessively paranoid, in my humble opinion. Perhaps those with stalkers are justified.

I have always posted here with my real given name and my home address and phone number are easily available on the Internet. I do it on purpose, to keep myself from being too much of a jerk. And yeah, I know I can be a jerk here sometimes, but I would be much worse if I was anonymous.

Some people can perhaps be trusted to behave responsibily with anonymity. It is your call of course, but I support your new policy 100%.
1.9.2005 11:18pm
Mythilt (mail):
As it stands, I will change my name when the time comes (in otherwords, when forced to), I've been using Mythilt as an online alias for about 10 years. I have other online aliases, but I've been using Mythilt for commenting on weblogs exclusively. My LJ is under the name Narile, which is my other common alias.
1.10.2005 10:46am