Dean,

Have to disagree with you here.

The plain fact of the matter is that there is a small, but powerful, group of people who are at war with the concept of Christianity in the public square - not religion, but Christianity (there is an even smaller, but mostly powerless, group at war with all religion). Cathy Young correctly points out that as of this point no one is attempting to block religious displays on private property but as we now live in a world where the ACLU sues the County of Los Angeles to remove a small crucifix depicted on the County seal in recognition of the Christian roots of Los Angeles (The City of the Queen of the Angels, if rigorously translated) we are getting into absolute absurdity - and only a short step away from the first lawsuit stating that the nativity scene on my front lawn interferes with the right of my atheist neighbor to not see such a public display.

The whole concept of Church and State as put forth by the secularists is entirely at odds with American law and common-sense. A person must have a deep, abiding hatred of Christianity in order for them to even consider the possibility that singing Silent Night at a school play is an unconstitutional establishment of religion by government. Right and justice are all on the side of those fighting against the secularists in this case while the securlarists haven't a leg to stand on - they are wrong and they need to be stopped, by legislative action if necessary - even up to amending the constitution to specifically advise them they are being mean-spirited idiots on the subject.

You are absolutely correct. Still, lefties got suckered into a debate on the issue and got their clock cleaned in the process.

I agree completely with Mark Noonan. I have had it with Political Correctness. And I disagree with Cathy Young that both sides are equally wrong and hysterical. It's the jerks who act offended and threaten to sue every time somebody wishes them a "Merry Christmas" who are wrong and hysterical. The Christians and other Christmas-lovers are just doing what we've always done.

"Those Americans who don't celebrate Christmas obviously have to be tolerant of the vast majority who do;"

That's exactly right.

"but they also have a right to a public square which does not loudly tell them they don't belong."

When has anybody ever told them they don't belong? Is there a sign somewhere that says "No Non-Christans Allowed"? I haven't seen it. Last time a minority was told they didn't belong in the public square was before the Jim Crow laws were repealed or while homosexuals were still in the proverbial closet.

Here's the news: The majority of people in America are Christians of one sort or another. That means the majority of the taxes that pay for public buildings, parks, etc., come from Christians. So, why should they be told they don't belong on the public property they pay for, or that they should keep their beliefs in the closet? Why should they?

"It's worth noting, too, that quite a few non-Christian Americans celebrate Christmas as a cultural tradition, and being inclusive toward them is a good thing."

That's exactly right. I'm one of those non-Christians who celebrates Christmas just because it's a grand old tradition and for the sheer joy of it. My family has always celebrated Christmas, including the Christmas tree, Christmas carols (lovely carols about the Christ Child, not just Santa and Frosty the Snowman), and everything else we like. If you are "offended" or have a problem with that, that's tough. I'm not going to change.

"Meanwhile, many Christians are genuinely concerned about the secularization and commercialization of the holiday. But for those who truly want to "put Christ back into Christmas," the answer is in giving more time and attention to religious and charitable activities,"

Christians are already doing plenty of that. They're just not willing to do it in a closet any more, just in order to avoid "offending" anti-Christian nitwits.

"not in demanding more Christian symbolism at the place where you shop. Macy's is not a temple."

It's not a mosque either. Far more Christians shop there and everywhere else than do Christian-hating nitwits. So, why should a store cater to the loudest mouths instead of the biggest dollar?

"Of course, the battle over Christmas isn't just over Christmas; it's part of the larger divide between liberal secularists and religious conservatives. Passions over such issues as same-sex marriage, abortion, and the teaching of evolution in schools are played out in clashes over creches. On all those issues, there is precious little effort by either side to understand the other, and precious little respect for the other side's beliefs."

True. I'm for same-sex marriage, and if we're ever going to see it recognized in this country, we who advocate it must visibly break with the advocates of abortion and with those who would censor all references to an Intelligent Designer and ban creches, crosses, and all other religious symbols. I've said it many times before and I'll continue to say it: Homosexuals must break with the Left, must break with progressivism, secularism, egalitarianism, relativism. Those false and debilitating ideas do no good and only lead to slavery.

The attack on Christmas is an attack on Western civilization. I agree with that conservative Ms. Young cites. His editorial had _style_. I agree with him: "Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good fight."

That "American Thinker" article was quite excellent, very well-written. The _style_ of Right-Wing (i.e., religious, patriotic, anti-egalitarian, etc.) writing is so often so good, even when I disagree with parts of it, centered on a transcendent God and absolutes rather than equality and progress. That's the language I speak.

She writes, "Let's put things in perspective. Even the most far-reaching efforts to stamp out religious expression in 'the public square' affect only government property."

As I said before: government property paid for mostly by Christians! I have had it with Political Correctness.

Dean,

As I said, granted; they are not, at this time, coming after displays on private property - but it is only a matter of time before they do unless they are stopped, now.

In the end, it's our country - most of us are of Christian background and the large majority are specifically Christian in belief; we're not a Christian country in the sense that we have an official, Christian religion, but we are a Christian nation in the sense that most of us are, indeed, Christian...to say we're not a Christian nation is to say that Ireland isn't a Catholic country or Turkey isn't a Moslem country - both nations have strict separation of Church and State (just as we do), but this does not change undeniable facts. People who are not Christian will just have to put up with a great deal of Christian display - as long as one is not required to attend Christian services or pay for the propagation of the Christian faith, then there's no grounds for complaint.

Fortunately, I do believe the tide has turned - we're a long way from victory, but it is all running in our favor.

Mark Noonan:

Excellent.

You wrote:
"People who are not Christian will just have to put up with a great deal of Christian display"

I won't merely put up with it, I welcome it. I want to see more of it. I think it's beautiful. A Christmas without Nativity scenes, the Star of Bethlehem, Christian Christmas carols about the Christ -- it's just not the same. I love the _style_ of the Christian, especially Catholic, faith, especially on Christ's Mass.