Dean's World

Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.

Thanksgiving Myths

One of the more pernicious myths I hear spread about Thanksgiving is that the settlers at the first Thanksgiving wound up stealing the territory of the Indians there and eventually slaughtering them. That's a terrible but increasingly common myth. Actually there was a horrible plague that killed off most of the Indians in that area, and the area was practically empty when the settlers got there. The few Indians who were still there welcomed them and, yes, did indeed befriend them, and no, they were not betrayed by those settlers.

There were conflicts between Indians and white people in the area some 75 years later, but that's an entirely different discussion.

For a pretty good history of the holiday of Thanksgiving, which examines some of the other myths (most of them harmless and fun), and a history of how it's evolved over the centuries, see this History Channel video. For a pretty in-depth writeup, Wikipedia has a pretty good entry.

Hope you're all having a good day!

Related Posts (on one page):

  1. American Indian Genocide?
  2. Thanksgiving Myths
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EdCone (mail) (www):
A note on that "horrible plague":

"Soon after Europeans arrived, European diseases killed 90 percent or more of the hemisphere's original inhabitants - at least 30 million people, and possibly 100 million, according to most recent estimates.

Four years before the Pilgrims' arrival, shipwrecked French sailors accidentally unleashed an epidemic, possibly viral hepatitis, on Cape Cod, which then swept through New England. The Pilgrims moved into an Indian village, Patuxet, that had been emptied by disease; they survived the first winter only after digging up food caches in victims' houses and graves. Some historians have speculated that holding the Thanksgiving meal was, in part, an act of apology."

—Charles C. Mann, NYT, 11/25/04
Unnatural Abundance
11.25.2004 2:52pm
Dean Esmay (www):
Yes, European diseases did a horrible number on the Indian population here.

But this is an entirely different case from the claim that those people were intentionally slaughtered. Although some terrible slaughters happened centuries later (sometimes committed by both sides), that's different from the question of the intent and friendship of those pilgrims and those Indians they encountered. (And yes, as one with Native American blood I still use the old term "Indian," which actually most "Native Americans" also still use.)

By the way, some snarky Europeans have noted that in exchange for smallpox and hepatitis and alcohol, the Indians gave back tobacco and syphilis. :-)

In any case, note that the Indians in the area of Plymouth Rock genuinely did befriend the pilgrims, were glad to have more people there--and the friendship was mutual.
11.25.2004 3:08pm
Heather (mail) (www):
As usual, there are some who would like to rewrite history to make white Europeans appear to be evil invaders whose sole intent is to take, abuse and/or destroy any environment they inhabit or other peoples they come across.

As usual, real life is never that simplistic and the truth is only a tiny part of that scenario. Unfortunately, some will never be convinced.

The really sad thing is that we don't remember often enough the situations like that friendship between that particular set of colonists and that particular band of Indians. Too bad, because they are a prime example of how two disparate peoples can indeed, not only get along, but learn from each other and become enrichened in the process.
11.25.2004 3:48pm
Bryan AWS (mail) (www):
This is the problem with much of revisionist history:
"Soon after Europeans arrived, European diseases killed 90 percent or more of the hemisphere's original inhabitants - at least 30 million people, and possibly 100 million, according to most recent estimates."

How are these estimates calculated? Whose estimates? It would seem that the wholesale deaths of 100 million people would leave quite a few bones to dig up, no?

"The Pilgrims moved into an Indian village, Patuxet, that had been emptied by disease; they survived the first winter only after digging up food caches in victims' houses and graves. Some historians have speculated that holding the Thanksgiving meal was, in part, an act of apology."

What reason do the historians have for speculating? Other than the need to get journal articles published to achieve tenure? Further, how would the pilgrims have known that the deaths were caused by european infections, since they had no way of knowing what the populace was like prior to their arrival?

It seems to me that there's an awful lot of reading our present mindset into the past here. Sort of like that Walt Lipmann bit about wishing Castro a speedy recovery.

Always beware when you hear the phrase "some historians."
11.25.2004 4:11pm
John Irving (mail):
Also note that these self-same "some historians" apparently don't know enough history to realize that germ theory, virgin field epidemic, and in general any specific knowledge whatsoever of disease organisms was still over a hundred years in the future. They might as well claim that the Wright brothers stole their ideas from Burt Rutan.
11.25.2004 8:15pm
Jazz Shaw (mail) (www):
They were mostly outrider groups from the tribes that would later compose the Iroquoi Nation. (e.g Mohawks, Seneca, Ondandaga, Tiqui... my mom's family were Mohawks, grandmother full blood.) It wasn't "centuries later" when the slaughters began, but it was decades. The initial wipeouts were, as mentioned, mostly from imported diseases which the Indians had no natural immunity to. However, it was barely a century later when we'd make it up to the time of Yellow Dog and the massacres along the Hudson and Mohawk rivers. The stuff that came later, and further to the west, was much worse.

The Pilgrims and the furthest Eastern natives almost certainly sat down at the table for harmony and peace. But let's not make it like we didn't effectively commit genocide on them later. Also, I think some of those numbers are off a bit. I'll need to check, but I don't think I've ever seen an estimate that put the Indian population in the continental US at over 200 million. Then again, it's early and I may still be asleep. But to wipe out 100 million via disease, you'd have needed at least a quarter billion to start with.
11.26.2004 9:12am
Dean Esmay (www):
The first so-called "slaughter" was 75 years after the first Thanksgiving, and was a military confrontation between rival groups.

Genuine slaughters--as in wonton killing--wasn't until some time after that.
11.26.2004 1:53pm
Dean Esmay (www):
...and was committed by both sides.

Making out the white people to be the always-bad people and the red people to be teh always-pitiful-victims is simply wrong.
11.26.2004 2:01pm
Steven Malcolm Anderson (www):
I agree with Dean. As to "white" men (Europeans) slaughtering "red" men (native Americans), I must remind you that it was only a few years ago that the "Red" (Communist) "white" men slaughtered thousands of "red" men in Nicaragua under Daniel Ortega.

Anyway, the whole Leftist paradigm of the Big Bad White Male European Imperialist Zionist, etc., Oppressor vs. the Weak Helpless Pitiful Black (or Red or Yellow) Female (or Homosexual), etc., Victim, is every bit as demeaning of the latter as it is intended to be damning of the former. The Indians were, and prided themselves on being, fierce warriors. Within their cultures, they were very conservative, religious, and hierarchical. They were not Rightists because they had no Left until long after the "white" Americans began importing socialist ideas from Europe.
11.26.2004 5:19pm
Jazz Shaw (mail) (www):
Well, that does it for me. Happy thanksgiving and holidays to come, and have fun. Revisionist history about Iraq is one thing, and I can at least understand the political motivations. Rewriting the genocide of the American Indians is beyond the pale.

Cheers.
11.26.2004 9:07pm
Dean Esmay (www):
I'm pleased to see such a shallow, rude, and intellectually dishonest person vacate the premises. Buh-bye now.
11.26.2004 9:22pm
John Irving (mail):
I guess Jazz just can't stand to have all of his anti-American myths shattered so blatantly.
11.27.2004 1:45am
Dean Esmay (www):
Although the questioin of genocide was entirely separate from anything I said--I merely noted the historically correct fact that the settlers at Plymouth Rock never engaged in any slaughter or even fighting with the Indians there. That is not in dispute by any responsible historian. The first fighting was 75 years after that, long after those settlers were dead, and it wasn't simply a slaughter but a war.

Some Americans did engage in wonton slaughter of Indians in the next few centuries, although the picture is more complex than we make it out to be these days. If you want to get an in-depth look at the open question about Indian genocide (and yes, it really is an open question), a good starting point is right here.

As someone with Indian blood himself (Miami, my great-grandma was a half-breed), I find the history of the various Indian nations to be fascinating. Yes they were often given the shaft. But, too, sometimes they were terrible to each other and engaged in wonton slaughters of their own, and sometimes wrongly attacked white settlers.

In other words, history is complex. But do read the article, it's good.
11.27.2004 2:22am
Jim Ausman (mail):
If 90% of the aboriginal inhabitants of North America died and there were 100M deaths, then there were originally 110M inhabitants. Just correcting some math there.

This is well within many estimates for the population of the entire New World. I don't know of anyone who claims that just what is the US had that population of natives, but it could have been the population of the Mayan and Incan empires, according to some researchers.

I am not familiar enough with the research to give an opinion on its accuracy or not. I do know that those numbers are controversial.
11.27.2004 7:33pm
Dean Esmay (www):
If you had bothered to read the article I linked, Jim, you'd see that it addresses those claims and those numbers in some depth.
11.27.2004 10:55pm
maor (mail):
I read that the Indian population around the Mississippi was destroyed by European disease before white men ever got there. Germs from Spaniards got there from central America or something. Europeans would have had no way of knowing they had anything to do with it.
11.28.2004 7:38am
Dean Esmay (www):
Maor: Read the article I linked. Or I'll link it as a main article again.

There is no support for the claim that Europeans intentionally and maliciously slaughtered millions of Indians.

Huge numbers were wiped out by things no one could control or even understand. Some were wiped out on purpose by nasty Europeans, but some of the Indians were also incredibly nasty and committed atrocities of their own.

In other words, as usual, history is complex.

No one can doubt that in many ways many Indians got badly screwed over and suffered unnecessarily. The term "genocide," though, is much harder to apply, unless you use an incredibly loose definition of the term.
11.28.2004 10:03pm