A Special Note to Carolyn Parrish
Dean
It is often remarked that the U.S. should be concerned that people in other nations have come to think poorly of us. What is less remarked upon is why those in other nations might want to be be concerned about what we in the U.S. might come to think of them.
Case in point: because of Carolyn Parrish, my family will not do business in Canada this year. Call it our own personal boycott. Living in Detroit, we often used to enjoy the occasional shopping or gambling or sightseeing trip to Windsor. We haven't been there since the liberation of Iraq began--and we may not be back until old Carolyn leaves Parliament.
Someone once said to me, "a heart is not measured by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others," in attempting to explain to me why we in the U.S. should be concerned what people like her think.
To which my response is: "Everybody's friend is everybody's fool."
I do not find the Carolyn Parrishes of the world amusing. And I will never, so long as I live, make even the slightest apology for liberating Iraq from the brutal mass-murdering fascist tyrant. Although I will apologize to these people for not supporting that action sooner.
Carolyn Parrish should make the same apology. But I doubt she has the introspection or the human decency to do so. So-called "liberal" that she is.
Several people are noting that Parrish has been disciplined by the Prime Minister and kicked out of her partys coalition. They also say it's wrong for Rosemary and I to "punish" Canada. Well you know, it's not like we're leading a nationwide boycott. It's just a personal thing. We both used to view Canada as our nation's brothers and sisters, but when you look at the contempt expressed by many Canadians--of which Parrish is only the worst example--and the fact that so many Canadians didn't just oppose liberating Iraq but actually treated America like we were evil to do it.... well I'm sorry, but that still to this day feels like a knife in the back. Call it a visceral thing. Perhaps if I hadn't already thought so highly of Canada it wouldn't have bugged me so much.
Related Posts (on one page):
- Maybe I'm Not So Mad At Canada After All
- Annoying Canadians
- A Special Note to Carolyn Parrish
C.P. has been roundly condemned, both on the right and the left.
But go ahead and enjoy your boycott. Not to put too fine a point on it Dean, but I'm glad most people don't think like you. If they did, a lot of people would go punished in this world for deeds perpetrated by a very tiny minority.
This is a paraphrase from what Professor Marvel (the erstwhile "Wizard of Oz") tells the Tin Man when he proves incapable of living up to his promises, and is just one small sample of what a cretinous oaf he was. What is startling is how most viewers simply absorb the sentiment without noticing how appallingly fatuous it is.
Not unlike "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer". Gah!
Some politician said something you don't like? So don't donate money to her, or her party, etc. You're saying that if I had a store that sold something you want, you wouldn't buy from me, because I'm Canadian. And I might add, I've never even heard of Carolyn Parrish before reading this entry.
Realistically, an American can't boycott a foreign politician or their party. But we can give money to their opposition...
Yours,
Wince
What do you think about Canadians boycotting the USA because of the slap on the wrist given two American pilots who disobeyed orders and mistakenly bombed and killed Canadians in Afghanistan?
Mkay, so we find a newspaper that consistently writes anti-Parrish articles and buy a subscription. What do 527's teach us? That there's always a way...
Yours,
Wince
A couple of points (via various other sources):
Parrish has been reprimanded several times for making stupid statements or doing stupid things. She only narrowly avoided public censure once before. She's a minority voice and a slightly nutty one at that.
The clip she filmed was for 'This Hour Has 22 Minutes' which is a comedy show. That doesn't condone the behaviour by any stretch of the imagination (especially because I don't know what the skit was about) but it might contribute to it seeming worse than it is when taken out of context.
Although Parrish was kicked out of caucus, she wasn't necessarily kicked out for bashing Bush. She was kicked out for comments that she made about Paul Martin and the Liberal government.
And she isn't necessarily anti-American, just anti-Bush. From what I've read, she only started making her 'anti-American' comments once the Republicans were in the White House. This doesn't excuse the behaviour or many of her comments, but it's something to consider before slinging labels around.
I'm not trying to make excuses for her behaviour, simply pointing out some facts that hadn't been brought up yet.
-Melissa
I think that if we start boycotting country X because public official Y said or did something regrettable, everybody would end up boycotting pretty much everyone else. There's lots of stupidity to go around, and boycotting an entire country because of comments from someone who was fired for them is a bad idea.
Even Canadians that agree with her philosophically, typically think of her as an embarrassment.
:-)
It's really that that I haven't forgiven them for. I'm just about as mad at their P.M. over it and the many things their ruling government have said as this lady.
I'm not leading any boycotts. To me, it's just personal.
"This is a paraphrase from what Professor Marvel (the erstwhile "Wizard of Oz") tells the Tin Man when he proves incapable of living up to his promises, and is just one small sample of what a cretinous oaf he was. What is startling is how most viewers simply absorb the sentiment without noticing how appallingly fatuous it is."
True. I also didn't like the lecture Dorothy got at the end of the movie about how she should have stayed in her own backyard instead of wanting to go to Oz. If she'd done that, there wouldn't have been any story at all!
I don't know how many of the millions who saw the movie even realize that it was based on a book, L. Frank Baum's "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz", and that he wrote a whole series of other Oz books after that, beginning with "The Marvelous Land of Oz", "Ozma of Oz", and on from there, 16 volumes in total. In "The Emerald City of Oz", Dorothy finally permanently moves to Oz, along with Aunt Em and Uncle Henry.
In essence how your statement comes across as sounding (whether it was meant in this fashion or not) is that you're mad at Canadians for not agreeing with something that the Americans did. And for not supporting them in doing it. The last time that I checked, Canadians were not a satellite nation of the US and that entitles us to make our own decisions, for better or for worse.
Not having been privy to Chretien's decision, I don't know what factors influenced it, but I do think that the Canadian military is over-stretched, under-funded, and under-equipped right now. I think being involved in Iraq would only have increased those difficulties.
Do I think the Iraqi invasion was immoral or arrogant? No. Do I support my government's decision to stay out of it? Yes.
Having said that, a Zogby poll early this year did show that 72% of canadians oppose the war in Iraq. Note, however, the question was "Do you support or oppose the war in Iraq?" and not "Do you consider the war in Iraq to be arrogant and immoral?" It is possible to oppose the war on Iraq for many reasons, "arrogant and immoral" being only one possible opinion to give in a wide spectrum of possibilities.
(Please note that I don't want to get into a debate about the Iraq war or the UN or UN approval at all; I just want to point out that it's not as simple as "Something like 80% of Canadians oppose what we did in Iraq, considering it arrogant and immoral.")
In early 2003, the House of Commons a motion (with government support) stating "the importance of self restraint on the part of all Members of the House in their comments on the war in Iraq while our American friends are in battle".
Where is the "contempt" expressed by "many" in the government of Canada? Because I don't see it.
Canada had her chance to support us, and her elected leaders at the time instead chose to treat our President and our country as war criminals. It'll take a lot more than words to repair the damage that caused. Tossing Chretien out on his rear was a good start, and so is the actions Parliament has taken, but thats all they are, a start.
From an objective viewpoint, it would certainly seem that American goodwill towards Canada is far more important to Canada than the reverse.
As someone who is close to members of the Chrétien government (my cousin, Andy Scott, is the Federal Interlocutor for Metis and Non-Status Indians, as well as the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, and former Solicitor General), I can tell you with 100% certainty, that Jean was NOT tossed out on his ass.
I agree with your larger point, but to say that "it would certainly seem that American goodwill towards Canada is far more important to Canada than the reverse" is exactly the reason why many Canadians, and indeed, the rest of the world, consider Americans to be extremely arrogant.
Maybe you should make an attempt at humility.
No Steven, I did not know about the books that followed. And thanks for explaining the tin man thing. I just read that and said, "Huh!" That is a classic, I will go check into the others now.
Yep, you live here and I would like to boycott Mexico because of the Mexican Mafia, the money payoffs the Mexican Federales get, the lies Vincente Fox is passing at the cost of human lives dying along our borders. Our troops told to stand down because of too many arrests. Makes us look cruel and politicians want numbers. You won't hear the chief of police in one city along the border was sitting with his thugs and was gunned down mafia style on our airwaves. Nope, it is just the poor folks wanting to come work here.
Sorry, this border stuff burns me up! Yep, they take the cheap labor, pay cheap taxes, ahh fugetaboutit! I just have people getting mad at me over it.
It's pretty sad how many Americans wanted to run to Canada after the election. Nevermind, I get too hot under the turtleneck!
I forgot to wish Michael a Happy Birthday the other day! Hope turning a year older made you feel better, smarter and a whole lot more fun and sexy kid! I have to look at mine that way!
"I'm going to buy an Old Navy T-Shirt today. No, I don't need a T-Shirt, but I heard they oppose Gay Marriage, and Roots supports Gay Marriage."
Maybe, just maybe, Dean, you should buy products based on their merit in this competitive capitalist market we all live in. If I held your thought process, Dean, I'd be pretty damn screwed, because 80% of stores in my own country would be off limits to me.
You're taking Dean's personal preference not to travel or shop in Canada to an absurd extreme. He can shun Canada to any extent he pleases without being required to align his total shopping and travel philosophy to satisfy your need for his consistancy.
I despise the French and have for many decades. I would never subject myself to their contempt for Americans by visiting their land. And, if I want wine, I drink domestic. Call me narrow, provincial and insular. That's me on the country of France. So what? For Canada, I'm a wee bit more forgiving. They are nice people just mislead by their European ties. That's me on Canada. So what? It doesn't matter a fig to anybody but myself. Same for Dean. It's his preference for his family. Canada will survive as will France.
You know, I used to hope for the rift between USA and Canada to end, but I can pretty much predict that now it is all but impossible. If Dean is going to boycott me, then I guess I'm boycotting him. I can no longer come to this site and feed his advertisers -- ads that I personally helped Dean put up, I might add -- if he is going to show such a level of utter disrespect to me and my countrymen.
Sorry, that's just the way it is.
OTOH, I have no desire to tell Dean what to do with his time and money.
Even when the debate over Iraq was raging full force--right before we invaded--I wasn't so sure about boycotting France. As I saw it, there was no way that my buying domestic cheese and wine would hurt the French politicians. Only farmers and vintners.
Of course, it was easy for me: I'm from California, and we have excellent wine and cheese of our own. So when I was being cheap (which is most of the time), the choice was clear.
John Irving: You say that "Canada had her chance to support us, and her elected leaders at the time instead chose to treat our President and our country as war criminals." Could you please provide support for your statement that Canadian leaders chose to treat your country as war criminals? When exactly was it that any US government official was indicted under Canada's Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act? Because I hadn't heard about that. Perhaps I'm mistaken?
It isn't because of Parrish's remarks, but from those of various Canadians who've commented on the WoT, either in person, by letters to newspapers, or in internet forums. Given that I feel I've heard/read quite enough from a wide sweep of citizens, I feel confident that there's very few I care to deal with currently.
Additionally, I take issue with their penchant for apologizing for terrorists and broadcasting al-Jazeera. The anti-Bush and anti-American rhetoric is just icing on the cake.
It was remarked above that 'maybe the US should make an attempt at humility.' Consider that advice returned to you, as nobody likes to be treated with the naked contempt you have displayed to us.
And if Chretien wasn't actually tossed out, thats a mark against the GWN, because for every moonbats scream of "corruption" about Bush, there was the real deal sitting as Canada's PM. The man whose family held a major stake in TotalFinaElf, selling no-war for oil. But he's out of the Prime Minister slot, and a miss is as good as a mile.
But I remember how the Canadian government acted and how many everyday Canadians acted. It still hurts, and I still have no interest in visiting Canada anymore.
And that's all.
But in the most part, the people who opposed the war didn't oppose the war itself, just Canadian involvement in it. Most people wished the Americans the best of luck, they just didn't want to fight with them.
Yeah, the sponsorship thing shows that Chretien and his government were corrupt. But Martin, for all the praise he's been given, isn't clean either. He was Finance Minister during most of that time, clearly in a position to know where the money was going. Not only that, but he owns a major steamship line that flies the flags of other nations so that he can get out of paying Canadian taxes. How is that any better?
Frankly, I admired Chretien for his willingness to stand up against the Americans. It's true we only have a small fraction of the power and might that the United States does, and that's why it can be hard to stand up and make our own foreign policy decisions. It's the same way that I hope Canadians don't adopt the Star Wars missile defence system.
The War on Terror is a just cause in many ways. But it's also become a war on terrorist that target (or will potentially target) Americans. Solidarity is wonderful and completely necessary, but other countries have to be permitted to make their own foreign policy and domestic decisions without having to worry about offending the Americans by doing that. Right now, it's leaning the other way.
In a lot of ways, it's the same situation that it was during WWI and WWII. America is still being isolationist, except this time, they were hit first. (Corollary point: The US didn't get into either war until it had impacted their soil. It was the Zimmerman telegram in WWI and Pearl Harbor in WWII. The War on Terror hasn't impacted anyone else the way it has impacted the Americans. Maybe it makes sense that they're not quite a gung-ho to go after American enemies... Besides, people aren't still mad at you for refusing to get involved in those two wars.)
Mainly I think what needs to happen is that people everywhere need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and re-evaluate what's really important. If that leads you to believe that Canadians are scum for deciding to assert ourselves and not get involved in Iraq, then so be it. But hopefully it'll calm everyone down a little.
I can understand how uncomfortable and how very passionate people feel. I sure don't like the word racist or bigots. I think a better explaination of what is felt needs to be said.
For instance, I am not happy or furious about a behaviour of someone from another country is talking and or writing about my country. Just calling out racist and bigot does nothing but show you need to look at what it is that disturbs you and then speak up like an intelligent adult. Yes there is still racist people out there that just stand and stomp and yell out those words without realizing how dumb it sounds. If I was in era's past and was told I could not come in and sit down to eat in a diner because of my color then yes...racist. This country was awful to black people and people from the orient and mexicans that came here illegally. I believe our country grew and matured and accepted various races much better than other countries did. I really believe that, I do.
We have freedoms that were given to us because of the truths we hold dear and what this country was founded on. We helped more countries around the world than any other have. So I think it's fair for Americans to be less than happy with our borders to the North and the South. Remember too, Clinton signed in free trade and look at all the countries that can put food on their tables now.
Am I mad at Canada? Sure I am. Do I like a whole lot of Canadians? Sure I do. Am I mad that huge companies like RCA and Motorola moved out of the United States opting for cheap labor in Mexico and hurting those towns for the sake of the almighty corporate powers, billionaires? Is Walmart hurting us by demanding the cheapest price overseas down to even 2 cents in profit giving China the work it should give us Americans? Yes, I do not want to shop in WalMart because they are cunning and show the roll back products of say a microwave at $39.00, Well, gosh then what do they have in the microwave section for just a few pennies more? It's the bait trick that scares me and fools people. Name me a television company that is still in business employing legal Americans.
We allowed this to open opportunity and that very signature to allow is coming back to bite in those rural towns.
There really is not anything wrong in America when we are allowed to boycott who we so chose. France, Mexico, Canada or Walmart. I believe we have shown racist is overused and dead and the same with bigot.
I often think of our children in our school grounds. "Well my Mommy is smarter than your Mommy! My Daddy is stronger than your Daddy! Then one kid kicks the kid that said something he did not like and then the other one goes in and starts throwing puches! Out comes the principle! Hey, break it up and go take a, Time Out!
Have you read a neat book called, "Everything I learned about life, I learned in Kindengarden." Would you believe it flew off the shelves?
Boycott is allowed and i really don't think Dean was hitting any one commentor. It's a deep love he has for America and I think inside his mind, his heart is a wish that people would be more thankful for all the good deeds The United States does on a daily basis. It's not just the war, the military. It is also the many charities that were established all across this land to help send food, build homes, build clean water supplies, sent doctors, missionaries, private jets with medical supplies and one huge jet I know of is an actual Hospital on board sent by none other than, Pat Roberston....yep, I know he can be a pain and slips in anger with his tongue. I catch his 700 Club from time to time because he has some outstanding guests, govenors, senator's, a few dignitaries, movie stars and tremendous three and four star generals. The book by Richard Miniter, Shadow Wars was a guest.
Look at the bigger picture of this. Sometimes I walk away and come back to read what people feel passionate about. If there is an arguement I can tell you this blog shows respect for your views. I have seen people go because they got their feelings hurt. Yes, feelings for that is what each and everyone of us has. I am like Dean in being a bit staunchy on some issues and when It comes to my country, I too will stand along my fellow American friends.
A few were on the other side and I was grateful to them, I was just stunned at what seemed like the ferocious negativity of the rest of the country.
I may have missed something.
Dean, I guess you did miss something, because there were plenty of Canadians who supported the war in Iraq, and did not agree with Chretien's decision to stay out of it.
I for one, supported Martin's election because of his promise to close the gap between our countries. And my main reason for not voting Conservative (even though I agreed with them on most domestic policies) was their inherent and surprising anti-Americanism revealed in the debates. I think this probably turned off alot of Canadians, and as you can see the Liberals won despite the sponsorship scandal and the loss of trust from the Canadian people.
The "ferocious negativity" you see in Canada is also very evident in the states. In fact, I've seen much more of it coming from the states, due to the fact that your country contains 10 times the population of Canada. You don't purport to be mad at America. What is the difference? Plenty of Americans -- probably more than the entire population of Canada -- didn't want to go to Iraq, and are still very vocal on the subject. Does the location printed on my birth certificate really make that dramatic a difference to you?
All of the negative publicity and feedback that you remember, Dean, needs to be put in context. There is a severe lack of balanced viewpoints, (Conservative vs Liberal), in Canada when it comes to our news sources. Unless one works hard to seek out the opposing viewpoint, Conservative in this case, it is all to easy to become misinformed and fail to see the whole picture.
I always thought of myself as a well-informed person when it came to politics. It wasn't until I made the effort to educate myself on the reasons why so many Americans felt this action was necessary that I could empathize with your plight and move away from my own leftist views. I've taken a lot of flack for it, but sites like yours have really changed a lot of my opinions. So thanks...Keep up the good work.
Thank you. And thank you for all your other comments here.
Dean:
Sorry, I didn't see your reply befor I posted my first comment. No disrespect was intended. I fully respect your decision.
"Perhaps if I hadn't already thought so highly of Canada it wouldn't have bugged me so much."
That's exactly how I feel about France. I love the French language, cuisine, much of their history, a number of their philosophers, just about everything about that country except what they have become today.