Forgotten Ideas and Forgotten Masters
Dean
I love women. I do. I view them as fundamentally the same creatures as men, and yet ineffably and wonderfully different. Having a pregnant wife knocking about the house probably contributes to this view.
If you look at ancient Greek culture, they tended to be quite beauty-obsessed. They also treated their women as less than property. Indeed, if they were property, this would have implied a certain status: if you own something, you value it in some way, whereas women were not quite so valued. So while they revered beauty, it was male beauty they tended to revere. You could see it in their art, quite obviously.
Here is how they tended to view female beauty:

Not bad. But here is how they tended to view male beauty:

Notice how much more well-defined the male form is. How much more dramatic, less draped, more vibrant. The Greeks were obsessed with male beauty--and the status of their women was quite low.
Modern American culture tends to revere female beauty, and women have greater status in this society than they have in almost any culture in human history. And yet, have a look at the type of woman we have come to uphold as beautiful, such as Sarah Jessica Parker:

Now, I do not think that Miss Parker is an ugly woman. But just look at her. She is thin. Ridiculously thin. Stick legs, tiny arms, almost no waist to speak of. How many adult women really look like this? 5% of the female population? 2%? 1%?
I don't mind that our culture worships female beauty. Indeed, I think you could make a good case that the status of women, and the healthiness of society in general, has gone up at the exact same time as worship of female beauty has gone up. Yet somehow, I think we've gone wrong somewhere.
I can point to it just by pointing to this picture of another icon of female beauty, Marilyn Monroe. Just have a look at this photo of Marilyn in her heyday:

Just look at her. What a mess! Big, gigantic feet. Short, stubby legs with big thighs. Chunky upper arms. Could such a beast find a job in today's Hollywood?
Yes, I'm being sarcastic. But just look at Marilyn next to Sarah. Isn't it ridiculous?
But let me ask you a simple question: who looks more like a real, everyday woman? I submit that it is (size 12) Marilyn, and not (size zero) Sarah.
I love women. I love their grace and their beauty and their chattering and their silliness and their strength. Yet somehow, it seems that our culture went wrong somewhere. Somehow we decided that hollow cheeks, tiny little arms, long stick legs, no waist, no hips, tiny little feet, but unnaturally enormous breasts, are the epitome of female beauty. How did we come to this point?
We missed something somewhere, methinks.
Back in the late 1800s, there was an artist who I believe truly captured the beauty of the female form. In my mind, he should be revered as much as Rembrandt, Van Gogh, and maybe even Da Vinci. He was a truly great artist. Perhaps he is forgotten because his work came just before the explosion of the expressionists, the cubists, the dadaists, the abstractionists, and so on. Perhaps he was just too old-fashioned, for he was completely overshadowed by the modern artists. But he should be remembered.
Who was he? His name was William Bouguereau.

He drew in the classical style, yet about 2/3rds of his work was based on the feminine form. He was truly great at it. He drew men, he drew children, he drew many things. But most especially he was without peer, before or since, when it came to drawing women.
He seems to me to have captured the essence of feminine grace. Yes, a somewhat romanticized view of the feminine, yet still a realistic depiction of it.

Indeed, here is an odd observation about him: I love the way he drew women's feet. He seemed to capture women's feet better than anyone. I am no foot fetishist by any means, but when you look at how he drew them, they were almost hyper-realistic.
Regardless of all that, just look at the way he drew women. Isn't it breathtaking?

He understood what real women looked like. He truly did.

I see two things when I see William Bouguereau's work. First, I see a man who drew in the classical style at a time when it was out of fashion, archaic, and underapreciated. This is tragic enough. Yet I also see an artist who, more than any other, appreciated the grace, the beauty, and the poetry of the feminine form, the true feminine form.
Women--real women--aren't they beautiful?

You can see more William Bouguereau right here.
Related Posts (on one page):
- Jeune Fille Se Defendant Contre L'amour
- Ludwig Deutsch
- Forgotten Ideas and Forgotten Masters









Thank you! I, too, worship the beauty of Woman.
Two quick comments, obviously just from my own perspective, and my own experience with men, but it applies:
I haven't actually MET a man who prefers stick-figure women with the bodies of prepubescent boys. I'm sure they exist, but I haven't met any. It's pretty much a universal in my experience with guys, that men love curves, the womanliness. They would all prefer to cuddle up to Marilyn Monroe rather than Kate Moss. They enjoy what is DIFFERENT about women's bodies from their own - not what is similar. So Sarah Jessica Parker may be a big star, and she is - but I don't know that she is looked upon as a sexpot guys want to f*** ... and as the ideal women should want to become. I could be wrong - I'm just talking about my own experience with guys, who love the whole hourglass-thing I've got going on, who love the boobs, the hips, the curves.
The second thing is:
When you say "real women" (meaning: women with curves, and fleshiness, etc.) I would caution you. There are women who just happen to be skinny, whose body types just happen to be thin, lean, and boyish - who are not anorexic, who are not succumbing to societal pressure - that's just how their bodies are. Some of my girlfriends are that way. Are they not "real" women, just because their metabolism chugs along like a race car, and their legs are long and skinny?
Women come in all shapes and sizes, obviously. Just like men do. Sometimes one body type is the trend, sometimes another is the trend. I would have been shit out of luck in the 1920s, when women were supposed to be boyish and lean. But the 1950s?? Ah, I should have been a teenager in the 1950s. I would have been right in sync with the trend.
Thanks again, for these pictures - that last one is truly gorgeous.
So it was with complete suprise that I looked at these masterpieces, and said, "Hey, THIS I 'get'." Moreover - and to my utter amazement - one of the first things I said was, "Hey, look at those feet!" Only to be told by Dean that this was exactly what I should have noticed. And no, I'm not a 'foot' guy either, but this fellow (who I never heard of before, I might add) did amazing things with an odd appendage.
Maybe Frances is doing funny things to my mind...
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Otherwise, what's the sense of admiring them?
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb
Obviously, this man liked women. REALLY liked women. In much the same way that its obvious that in the 1990's that the animation department head at Disney REALLY didn't.
Appreciation of art and appreciation of women are related, but not identical activities. Appreciation of the female form apparently is hard-wired into the brain in many regards, according to international research. It seems that most people prefer a particular bust/hip/waist ratio as indicating fertility.
Now that fertility is not that big a biological drive anymore, there's probably more room for variations on a theme.
Personal taste, though, is not to be disregarded. Parker's on the thin side for me, but I find her face severely off-putting. Androgynous is fine as is curvaceous, but Rubenesque is a turn-off. Each to his own.
The Arts;
I remember when my Mom and Dad were teaching me to appreciate art in various forms. My Mom would sing along to, Mona Lisa sang by Nat King Cole. Her voice blending with his sent me to the moon and gave me goose bumps. I loved hearing her sing. I played piano and learned to adore Beethoven, Mozart and wanted to make both my parents happy so I learned to play songs by Henry Mancini.
I was so curious as to why Mom sang about Mona Lisa and what she looked like because of the words that said, "Mona Lisa, Mona Lisa men adored you, you're so lovely with that smile". So after noticing how much I wanted to see this beautiful lady my Dad took me to an art Musuem so I could see, "Mona Lisa!" YIPPIE!!!
I looked up at my six foot daddy and wondered why he seemed to like it so much. I yanked on his sleeve. He had told me to look at it and try to imagine what the artist was thinking, how his creative mind took the paint brush to the canvas and painted a masterpiece.
I obeyed.., (Big word back then, Bill Cosby does a great skit on the word, Obey..it's hysterical).
Well, then I YANKED on his sleeve again, after looking at the great, Mona Lisa! I couldn't speak up because we were afterall in an art museum and you keep your voice lowered, same thing in a library.
Finally... after not getting his attention I stomped on his foot!
He looked down at me and said, "What honey, What!?!"
"Daddy...she is UGLY, so why does Mom sing THAT STUPID SONG!?!
I just know from his laughter and tenderness when he bent down and gave me a hug, it was something I would understand someday.
I could be wrong about this, but I bet anorectics are disporportionately white. A patient of mine who was Native American pointed this out to me one day. She said she could never look like the skinny white girls in the magazines, but mostly she just wanted to avoid being diabetic.
Also, not to be nitpicky, but I bet Marilyn would be a size 8 or 10 in today's clothing sizes. Designers aren't stupid. If you're going to pay top dollar for a pair of pants, it better have a size "6" on it. Size creep is very real. There's no way I am the same size I was twenty years ago, though my pants label says it's true.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
His depictions of the women are breathtaking, but the women themselves are remarkable ordinary. At a time like ours when there is so little beauty in the plain, I could see why women---and men---try to stand out whichever way they can.
I'd like to know what it is about being white that makes women want to be sticks. It seems to me that black and hispanic women have better ideas about what constitutes the female form- a few more pounds gives a black women a nice booty, but white women ask "does this make my butt look fat?"
You horrible racist you!
Heh. Heheheh.
His depictions of the women are breathtaking, but the women themselves are remarkable ordinary.
You said it. His women are remarkably ordinary, and all the more beautiful because of it. Good observation!
The guy was great, wasn't he?
Obviously, this man liked women. REALLY liked women. In much the same way that its obvious that in the 1990's that the animation department head at Disney REALLY didn't.
I would like to hear your thoughts on how and why you think Disney animators in the 1990s did not like women.
I rather liked the portrayal of women in Aladdin, for example, as well as The Lion King. Indeed, on the former, I kind of like the fact that it was the first movie with both a hero and a heroine who had genuinely semitic noses.
What am I missing?
Chicago, New York, Paris, Madrid. Eventually something connects.
You're right. That's one of the things that attracts me to Negro women, besides their color: they tend to have more flesh. I love flesh, body, curves, curvaceousness. The Encircling Pulchritude of Woman vs. the Linear Angularity of Man. I'm not man enough to be a man's man like the Greek men were. I'm a male Sapphist instead.
Again, thank you, Dean. And.... HAIL TO THE QUEEN OF ALL EVIL....!!!!
As for you, Dean, I am not racist. I'm sexist, you genetically-deficient-XY-chromosome-carrier you!
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.