More Racist Smears
Dean
A spoiled, pampered little brat named Oliver Willis recently called me a racist. Indeed, he endorsed the notion that I have an "irrational hatred of blacks" and am "dangerously angry."
Heh. Yeah I sure hates me some black folks. A regular George Lincoln Rockwell, that's me. Yep yep. Can't stands 'em! Also gays, women and Jews. And don't even get me started on the Presbyterians, those beady-eyed psychos! I hate 'em all, I do I do!
Seriously, I can't stop laughing. Especially at the thought of what a pampered, privileged little suburbanite like Oliver thinks he knows about racism. Kid, you're nothing but a spoiled brat.
Oh, and you're not the only one who's the son of a single Mom, little man, and I know as well as anyone, up close and personal, what it is to live on welfare so don't tell me what you know about poverty. Today I'll swap paychecks with you any day of the week since it's a damn good bet you make a lot more than I do. The difference between us is, you seem to think the color of your skin gives you special license to say racist crap about others and get away with it.
As for my supposed anger: it often amuses me how often people mistake blunt, no-bullshit talk about race issues for anger.
Anyway, pampered, privileged little race-hustler Oliver owes me an apology. I don't expect him to have either the introspection or the honor (or the balls) to do it, but I'd like to be surprised.
My evil Canadian friend (have I mentioned that I also have an irrational hatred of Canadians? Hate them, hate them!) Michael Demmons has a response to Oliver, for which The Queen and I are both grateful.
Oliver: do the right thing and apologize. It'll be good for your soul.
According to Willis, his background is actually quite poor (or at least he's insinuating this). Are you sure that he was pampered?
Admittedly, his previous tagline of "like kryptonite to stupid" doesn't give me much faith in him, but are you sure that your characterization of his childhood is accurate?
N.B. Increasingly, I've noticed that hard-core (and pseudo-hard-core) liberals are getting quite Orwellian, where terms such as "african american" "choice" "racist" "reactionary" etc. have become code-words rather than meaning what they do in plain english.
Slowly, it seems that 'racist' doesn't denote what it used to any more; it's now just a mildly nuanced term of general political disapprobation. At least as far as I can tell.
So, you might be misunderstanding what these people are claiming. They might just mean that you should be shot, not that you should be shot for any well-defined reason. ;-)
Doesn't change a thing. He's a pampered, spoiled brat who thinks his skin color gives him license to lie and smear people. I ain't impressed.
He owes me an apology. In fact, he owes me two or three now.
I don't doubt that Willis has been less than sensible (to say it rather euphemistically), but if he grew up in extreme poverty (as he seems to imply), how could he be a pampered, spoiled brat?
I'm not arguing, I'm asking. I grew up in a very comfortable household with two parents, and am quite conscious of that fact — so I am always very hesitant to call anyone pampered. I'm just not knowledgeable enough. Can you explain how you know that he was pampered?
It's a very sincere question, and I don't mean it in connection with anything else about him. I.e. I'm not trying to dispute that he owes you an apology for calling you a racist — I'm just asking about this particular issue.
If he grew up poor, he can join the club. It doesn't mean he isn't a pampered, privileged little brat right now though, becuase that's exactly what he is.
If Dean Esmay is a racist, then so am I. HAIL TO THE QUEEN AND TO THE KING AND TO THE QUEEN'S NOBLE KNIGHT, MICHAEL DEMMONS.
You seem pretty intent on standing by your "pampered, privileged" characterisation of Mr. Flypaper to Stupid, but you also seem to be tapdancing around providing support for that when asked. It's a fair question, so I'll ask it again: what do you base that on? Who "pampers" him? In what way is he "privileged"?
I'm really not trying to give you a hard time- I personally can't stand that roly poly retard Willis, but I gotta call em like I see em, and right now I see you stubbornly standing behind something you said and refusing to back it up with anything substantive.
It's your blog and you can run it as you wish, but really I wish you'd either retract the statement or give us something to justify it. I mean honestly, there are more than enough readily apparent things to slam the putz for-- why go with something vague and unsupportable?
That and the fact that he appears to think that being black gives him the right hove racist smears at me--as I see he's still doing.
Pampered, spoiled little punk who thinks being black gives him license to be an asshole. That's all I see.
All I'm doing is calling the spoiled, pampered little punk out. He's got a weird obsession with me--he has rather obsessively linkd me many times to cast aspersions on my character and taunt me like a schoolyard bully--and so I'm finally just calling his bluff.
Oliver: you're a race-hate spewing, spoiled little brat who thinks being black gives you license to be a nasty jerkoff. Furthermore, by calling someone who wants to talk honestly and with no bullshit about race issues a "racist," you just help pollute the racial dialogue in America.
You're not stupid. I don't know why people call you stupid. You're a punk, Oliver. A pampered, spoiled, lowlife punk.
If the man had any class, if he had a problem with what I said he would have asked me about it and tried to talk to me about it. But that ain't what he did, he chose to slime me. I got no obligation to be nice about that, to "rise above it and let it go." My ass. This mean-spirited little punk has been getting away with juvenile, crapulent behavior like that for too damned long, not just toward me but all kinds of people.
He isn't stupid. He's a punk who enjoys mocking and ridiculing people, smearing and distorting them, and worst of all, he's a bigot who thinks being black gives him license to act like that.
You don't like me calling his ass out on it? Oh well.
OLIVER: You owe me two or three apologies now. You ever going to have the class to admit it, punk?
You forgot women. Dean hates them too.
Something about women talking, if I recall correctly.
And before anyone tries any bullshit with me, the address was 504 5th Ave, Union City, NJ. Apartment 4 was on the second floor, up the piss-smelling stairwell right after you passed the garbage alley. Everyone on my block was a "spoiled, pampered little punk" without a job or a penny to his name (after the drugs were bought and used, of course), and whose mother thought he was the son of the Immaculate Conception.
If you doubt me, take a trip there and come back telling me it ain't so. Until then... Carry on, Dean. :)
While I am a certainly a Presbyterian, and most likely a psycho, I am definitely not beady-eyed. :)
I grew up close to dirt poor, and most of my friends were from poor or very lower middle class families. I knew quite of few of them to whom "pampered spoiled brat" was applicable. You become pampered/spoiled by having your folks pad your corners for you, not say "no!" to you, and having them sheild you from the consequences of your actions. It has nothing to do with money - it just takes different forms in poorer families.
"Privileged" I won't argue for - Dean can fight for that one on his own. Over to you, Dean. ;)
I've been in the worst of the worst baby, including having the hair standing up on the back of my neck from the gun pointed at it.I've put my life on the line to protect a black man before, I've stood toe to toe with a Neo-Nazis(not that I believe Oliver's ever even seen one of those in real life) knowing they might put me in the hospital but told them why I thought what they believed was a bunch of bullshit. Now to have this ignorant, pussy little punk tell me I'm a racist?
I'll give you the address, Oliver. You come say it to my face, little boy, and we'll talk some more. Until then, get out of my face you spoiled brat, punk-ass, race-pimping little bitch.
Good on you for not lying down on this.
Willis is a git...
I grew up in Jersey City, on Magnolia Ave., in a building charitably describrd in the newspaper as a crumblimg Victorian tenement. It was so old there were fixtures for gas light in the walls, and the outlines of blocked off fireplaces. Union City was upscale from my hood.
For the life of me, I can't recall the exact address (117 maybe?), but it was on the north side of the street between East St. and West St. (no kidding). Its only virtue was that it was in easy walking distance from the Tube station at Journal Square, which, for a few cents, opened up the wonders of Manhattan.
I loved NYC.
White Ethnic Irish/Polish Republican :)
[gigglesnort]
Ignore the lying bastard. The only people who cares about his bullshit any more are his fellow moveon.org kooks, the atriettes and barking moonbat commenters.
Wipe his mud off your feet and go on with life...never read that drivel again. You'll be happier.
But I have much, much more to say about this. Come Monday or Tuesday, I'll have a lengthy essay on race issues in America, and what I think the #1 issue still facing us is: the fear of what happens if white people actually say what they honestly think, with no bullshitting, no apologizing, and without getting defensive. Of how afraid most everyday white people are to do this, and of how it fucks so much up when it comes to race.
Short peek of what's to come: why is it that you guys find it okay for us to laugh at you, but you don't want us to laugh with you?
It's a scary thought: what if Casper actually tells you what he thinks, and what he thinks turns out to be neither dangerous nor hateful?
No offense, but if *I* your brother-in-law called you a "racist" (in a hypothetical situation, of course) and you came on your blog calling me an idiot and a poser and spoiled rich kid or whatever else you laid on Oliver. I would not apologize to you, even if I was wrong.
So don't expect an apology...
Jerry
Very well said.
What's your point here Dean?
1) That some black people are annoying or rude?
2) That you can criticize anyone but black people?
3) That you're angry at your lot and your pissed at black people getting breaks from Affirmative Action?
4) That white people are cowards and you're not?
5) That you're simply angry and want to pick a fight?
Do you actually think you're providing a "service" to people?
Do you not think that you don't come off as an angry hateful person?
especially the comments you left at Oliver's site?
I'm not interested in playing "pc cop" here.
But when you talk about "black people" isn't that pretty stupid?
And while you mention that black people can critique white people you forgot to mention how well they criticize themselves as well?
Ever watch Chris Rock?
Listen to Bill Cosby recently lay out Tavis Smiley?
So is your big point that black people can kid around about white people but seriously mocking black people by a white person is out of bounds? I don't think it is as much as it used to be. And are some black people really hateful bigots that utilize that to their advantage? SURE....
but your big BEEF is that you can't gleefully mock black people? As if black comedians kidding around about the way white people dance is such a BIIIIGGGGG DEAL?
If that is really a 'problem' for you than you have some other real serious issues would be my guess.
And don't get me wrong I can't stand the over the top PC shit that comes out of the MSM, NY Times etc.. especially the way they still say that Jesse Jackson was on the porch when MLK was shot even though they know its FALSE....
Sure its bullshit that the main black leaders are Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and unfortunate. And I get angry at the far left racism, hatred and sexism particularly on the black far left wing radio stations....
But just making a post "how annoying are black people" is not only ignorant and hateful and belies a deep resentment from you but its poorly constructed, unless that was your purposeful intent to try and provoke a fight....
Look I don't know if you're racist or not... or if you're a ""great guy"" who's just angry for some reason or another the way things are handled that you feel are unfair....
and I'm not interested in comparing life resumes....
but this post not only is ignorant and does you no service but it also is a sad way to make any type of point you may actually want to make... if at all there was one.
Also, its ironic that you note how poor your lot has been while admiring others, hasn't that been the basis for the left's class war as well as what fascist and communists used in Europe as reasons to have a "revolution" and blame someone else in the case of Nazism.
Mike
I don't know the history here.
Oliver may be a smug little prick.
But instead of you invoking a harangued statement that 'would reveal' underlying anger and/or racism from him -
He did the exact thing from you.
Mike
MikeN: Didn't get your email. But to answer your questions:
What's your point here Dean?
1) That some black people are annoying or rude?
Well, yes, some of them are. More to the point, however, many of them (comedians especially) seem to feel free to vent in this direction, but let a white person speak his mind and there's something evil or racist about him. Why this double-standard, especially in a world where there's plenty of poor white trash worse off than this arrogant little prick has ever been?
2) That you can criticize anyone but black people?
Uh, no. Seems like a non-sequitur here.
3) That you're angry at your lot and your pissed at black people getting breaks from Affirmative Action?
Not angry at my lot at all. Am pissed that underprivileged Asian, Arab, white, and other kids get fucked over while pampered black and hispanic brats who are children of millionaires get special dispensation just because of their skin color though. That should make everyone sick, shouldn't it?
Is the object to help the underprivileged, or to help anyone who happens to have a particular racial background no matter what his advantages? I have kids in my neighborhood right where I live who have less consideration than a pampered little prick like Harold Ford Jr. got when his little black brat ass ever got. Why is that okay? And why is it wrong for me to bring it up?
Sure, it's rude that I bring it up. It's rude that it happens the way it does, and that so-called "liberals" look the other way or even make excuses for it.
4) That white people are cowards and you're not?
Indeed, most white people are cowards when it comes to discussing race issues. I'm not angry about this. But it's still true.
5) That you're simply angry and want to pick a fight?
Heh. I'm not angry. But Oliver picked the fight. Excuse me for defending myself.
Do you actually think you're providing a "service" to people?
Nope.
Do you not think that you don't come off as an angry hateful person?
especially the comments you left at Oliver's site?
I stand by, word for word, every single word I left on Oliver's site--not one word of which was racist, hateful, or angry.
Indeed, every word of it was quite correct. So why are you angry about any of it? What part of it was wrong? Can you factually challenge any of it? What is angry about any of it?
Or does it make you angry when people voice certain uncomfortable truths?
But when you talk about "black people" isn't that pretty stupid?
No more stupid than what I see black comedians do on a daily basis on TV. So why do I draw anger for merely pointing out how paranoid and silly white people can be when it comes to race issues?
Let me add that your comments on Oliver's site were particularly ignorant and idiotic.
Okay Mike: Which part was ignorant and idiotic? Would you like to hone in on it for me? What part of it was wrong or factually inaccurate?
So far, all I can see is that you are filled with rage at me for speaking truth to power, and happening to be white while doing it.
Go on, Mike. Tell me which part was wrong. Or is it just that our cultural taboos have made it unacceptable for someone like me to point out certain obvious truths?
Race issues are raw, but they're real. What's so scary about a white boy speaking about them openly? Hmm?
Go on. Tell me which parts were wrong. Tell me which parts were ignorant and hateful.
I wasn't giving you grief, I was just stating that you shouldn't expect an apology from the guy.
It would be like my wife saying something mean about me, then I say "Come on you stupid bitch, fucking apologize to me. It'll be good for you."
You and I both know that this Oliver dude is wrong. I've known you long enough to know that you aren't a racist.
So the guy expressed a hurtful and wrong OPINION of you, big deal. If you really wanted an apology, calling him a "a snotty, elitist, condescending brat" isn't going to get you that.
So if you DIDN'T want the apology, why even post about it??
speaking as someone else who Willis has gone around lying about, Dean could've sent a bouquet of roses and Willis is just as apt to lie.
I am so "filled with rage" and put off by a white person making any statements about race relations.....
Yeah, Dean you're too raw for me.... lol..... trying not to laugh too hard, ok.
No time to reply right now will soon.
I strongly recommend this particular essay, as feed for your upcoming essay.
How he chooses to respond to this is up to him. I'm just calling his pampered, privileged ass out.
RW: Feh. He's a little poser who thinks that being black gives him a license to be an asshole. What more needs be said?
I'll look forward to your essay. Seriously. Be sure to send me the link if you don't send it here.
I'm just thinking that you should move on, and forget about the guy.
RW: That Oliver guy lost all credibility with me when I clicked on the link that Mike Demmons highlighted AND if you look at Oliver's bio, you find that he works for Media Matters for America.. When I read that, I decided to take action and try and dissuade my sisters hubby from further bashing the dude, because we all know how good the MMFA guys are at twisting things..
Generalizing about people based on the color of their skin? It's racist when blacks do it; it's racist when whites do it.
Yes, Oliver's selective outrage is silly and counterproductive. I've long thought Oliver a hate-filled twit. But that doesn't make it any less racist when whites generalize about blacks based on the color of their skin.
I think we all need to look deeper into ourselves and let Oliver worry about Oliver. Lord knows he's got his crosses to bear.
Peace, Brian
Black comedians do a good job of pointing these things out. Of course generalizations are just that: generalizations. Here in the Detroit Metro area, black people smoke a lot of Kools, and drink a lot of Faygo grape pop. They just do. I didn't make that up. I didn't make it happen. And I'm not a racist if I notice it.
Does that mean all black people smoke Kools and drink grape pop? What idiot would ever think that? I certainly don't, and I don't know anyone who does.
Watch BET some time. You figure there's no black culture that is distinct and identifiable of its own? Get bent man. So why can't we talk about it?
Oh, but wait, some of us can. Black people can. White people do it, and we're automatically racists? Give me a freaking break.
That's where all this started: my effort to point out how easy it is to get under people's skin, just by being a white man and saying out loud things that black people say every day. It's a hypocritical double standard, and the entire reaction to this just shows that. I freaked people out by making the most mild and silly observation possible, and the reaction was practically volcanic. Now why is that?
I take back not one word I have written on this subject so far. I have no regrets, I have done nothing wrong, and I have absolutely nothing to apologize for.
In fact, white people need to stop apologizing for noticing everyday realities. It's just STUPID.
Sorry to sound so argumentative. I've been where you are, man. Delete this if you feel it's inappropriate. Your blog, all that noise.
Peace, B
Of course Kools and soda pop are irrelevant. Well, not entirely, for while they are trivial they are indicators of small cultural markers that are undeniable.
Hell, my wife's Polish family eats a lot of kielbasa. Significant? Not in every way, but it's there and it's something we can joke about.
I think frankly discussing differences, big ones and little ones, is a healthy thing. It's when you get that chip on your shoulder that things get bad.
They constantly use memories of the Holocaust to generate sympathy and emotionally blackmail us into supporting Israel. And forget about criticizing what Israel does to the Palestinians. Mention it, and you immediately get beaten over the head with the cudgel of "anti-semitism", by fanatical Zionist Jews and their uber-PC right-wing minions who have their own reasons for supporting that racist apartheid state. And let's not forget, if you're Jewish and criticize Israel, you get called a "self-hater"... you know, it has more or less the same meaning as "Uncle Tom". Interesting, that.
Yep, those Jews sure do annoy me.
Oh, but I'm not an anti-Semite. Honest. Perish the thought.
Leave it to you, Walter. I talk about the way black comedians feel free to make fun of people of all races and how annoying that double standard is, and you bring up the holocaust.
I agree that racism's a problem, just like anti-semitism is a problem--and just like scapegoating rednecks and poor white trash is a problem. You want to call me a racist for that? Okay. That just speaks to your own ignorance and your own prejudices.
Guess that does make me an anti-semite, huh?
No, it doesn't. I was just using that to illustrate the point about how what you say can be perceived depending upon the audience, because for whatever reason, in a roomful of right-wingers, Jews will always get far more sympathy than blacks. Am I wrong? Can you honestly tell me that people on the right don't display a far greater capacity for empathy, understanding, and righteous anger on behalf of Jews than blacks?
Personally, I don't think you're a racist at all. Even though I'm not particularly fond of most of your political views, that doesn't make you a rabid black-hater. I really did get the point you were trying to make with your question, regarding the taboo nature of such frank discussions about race relations.
That being said, with your clearly-expressed visceral hatred of the left wing, would you not react to a member of that crowd espousing the kind of views I put in my comment by assuming that he or she was an anti-Semite? See, you have to consider the source. It's not always the real intent behind the words, but rather the perceived intent, that matters. And are you honestly telling me that in the political climate that exists right now, you don't expect people to be on a hair-trigger with regard to already-sensitive issues? Even in the best of times, a question like yours coming from a (de facto) Republican would not be well received. And considering the way Oliver, specifically, gets treated by most of the right-wing bloggers, is it really all that surprising that he would react to you in the way he did?
All that being said, I do think his response came off as hysterical, hyperbolic, and way over the line with the accusations. Nothing you said indicated "irrational anger" to me; if anything, Oliver and some of his commenters seemed a bit irrational on thise issue. Then again, I'm not black, so I've never been treated with automatic suspicion based on the color of my skin.
Still, even if I think you do go in way too much for the poor white victim thing, I really don't think you're a racist at all. A rather mean-spirited right-wing internet repeater cell at times, yes. But not a racist, and that's something. The point of my post was not to call you one, so I'm sorry you interpreted it that way. It was intended only to offer you a view of the matter from a slightly different angle (insensitive comments directed at a group with whom you seemed likely to have more sympathy), in the hope that it might lead to some degree of improvement in your understanding of Oliver's position.
I guess that's kind of my point here, Dude. It's not what you meant to say, it's what people think you meant to say that counts. The Chinaman is not the issue.
Honestly, I don't know, but I guess you're right. Conservatives, in my observation, today seem to view with impatience the claim that blacks are "held back" by "400 years of slavery and oppression" and such, and to think that the primary problems blacks face as a community within America--problems which are getting better all the time, by the way--are self-inflicted and cannot be helped by aggressive government programs.
Conservatives, by comparison, tend to admire Jews for their industriousness in the face of discrimination, their determination to succeed anyway, and to admire the fact that they have succeeded out of proportion to any ethnic group in America, inclucing white Protestants.
So yes, if you're talking about generalities, I'd say yes, conservatives tend to have more sympathy for Jews. Then again, on an individual level, I have honestly never seen much difference between left and right, Democrat or Republican, on a one-on-one level.
That being said, with your clearly-expressed visceral hatred of the left wing, would you not react to a member of that crowd espousing the kind of views I put in my comment by assuming that he or she was an anti-Semite?
Hmmm, I have a visceral loathing for the far left and the far right, and I'm rather angry right now with many on the left. So I GUESS that's fair, although I would have to insist that if a Democrat were in power right now and being pelted the way Bush has been, I'd be pretty damned mad at the hard right. YOu'll have to trust me on that. I'll understand if you dont'.
That being said, with your clearly-expressed visceral hatred of the left wing, would you not react to a member of that crowd espousing the kind of views I put in my comment by assuming that he or she was an anti-Semite?
Given the amount of anti-semitism we've seen embraced by certain segments of the hard left in recent years, this would give me pause. But I would try hard not to jump to immediate assumptions on that, and would try to ask the person questions.
I'd like to think so anyway. I'm not always perfect on this score, but I try.
And are you honestly telling me that in the political climate that exists right now, you don't expect people to be on a hair-trigger with regard to already-sensitive issues?
This is not a bad point at all.
And considering the way Oliver, specifically, gets treated by most of the right-wing bloggers, is it really all that surprising that he would react to you in the way he did?
Uh, no, all I've ever seen from Oliver is a tendency to mock, deride, needle, and distort the right-wing bloggers. He seems to enjoy the attention. I have no respect for the cat--he's never given me any reason to.
Indeed, I've seen him be unbeleivably mean and nasty to right-leaning people who went out of their way to reason with him.
The guy gets no respect from me. None.
Still, even if I think you do go in way too much for the poor white victim thing, I really don't think you're a racist at all.
Well, you know, that's the liberal in me. The real liberal. The one who cares less about race than he does about the poor and disadvantaged.
It is the absolute, positive, undeniable truth that the majority of poor kids in the United States are white. That the majority in terrible schools are white. That, indeed, poor white trash and rednecks have been made the scapegoats for everything wrong in America--and this causes problems.
Does that define me? It did in some ways for part of my life, but it's a living reality for millions. I won't apologize for this. It's the truth. Indeed, there was a time when liberals all acknowledged this--that it was poverty and disenfranchisement and education that were the biggest issues of all, not skin colors. That if you helped all kids with these problems, those who were disproportionately hurt by race would be disproportionately helped, but that all these kids mattered just as much.
Now we have so-called "liberals" (and they damn well are NOT liberals in my view) excusing giving pampered millionaires' kids like Harold Ford Jr. Affirmative Action but screwing over arab, Asian, and poor white trash kids because they just don't matter as much. This should boil the blood of any real liberal and is, in my view, a huge sign that the left has become ossified in orthodoxy rather than having the firm set of values that the great liberals of old like John Stuart Mill embodied.
Then again, I'm not black, so I've never been treated with automatic suspicion based on the color of my skin.
Oh, see, having been white and underclass, and lived and worked in all-black or predominantly-black neighborhoods, I have been. So that's one I have on you. ;-)
guess that's kind of my point here, Dude. It's not what you meant to say, it's what people think you meant to say that counts. The Chinaman is not the issue.
Heh. This would be working better if we were talking about someone else. ;-)
Look, I understand what you're saying. People tend to react negatively to their perceptions. I expected a negative reaction, I was just foolish in not expecting an even more negative reaction than I did. I wanted to make a point about double standards and prejudices, and perhaps I did that poorly--but overreacting and throwing out baseless accusations, that's just as bad.
This has all given me much to think on and, I hope, you as well.
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.