Chimpy's Buddy Michael
Dean
Stephen Den Beste on why Fahrenheit 9/11 will help Bush:
Moore has planted his flag smacko in the middle of the Holy City of anti-Americanism. To defend that position, the LL's [loony left] will now vocally proclaim something many have long believed but avoided admitting: they hate America and everything it stands for. That is not a message that will sell well to the broad electorate. They will proclaim that they love this nation, but... and then make clear that they despise most of the people who live in it, and despise the very features of this nation that the majority of us see as its greatest virtues. And they will poison the leftist political position even for non-loonie leftists. (Since Moore's supporters constitute a significant base of support for the Democratic Party, they're going to represent an ongoing headache for the Kerry campaign by their antics. And that will force him to continue to equivocate about his position major issues, to avoid alienating them, and at the same time avoid alienating the broad electorate.
He's right on the money here.
Mind you, there has long been a segment of the American right which also views Americans with contempt. Right wing contempt for Americans is just of a different flavor: they basically see most Americans as immoral, lazy, and undisciplined, whereas the left-wing elitists generally think Americans are stupid zombies who believe whatever they're told in beer advertisements, are bloodthirsty, racist, mother-Earth-raping, selfish, and so on. Contempt for your countrymen is hardly a trait the left owns.
Nevertheless that segment of the right has been pretty quiet the last few years (at least since Jerry Falwell's idiot blatherings the week of 9/11), whereas the hate-America left has been front and center and incredibly shrill and obnoxious. Which is why some of the Bush ads showing screaming, raging Democrats, and folks comparing him to Hitler, are so devastatingly effective. They make a lot of people (me included) want to vote for Bush just to spite his obnoxious critics.
I sincerely hope that you won't allow yourself to sink to a level in which you would vote for a candidate based purely on spite for an independent party, especially someone who isn't even running for a public office (michael moore and company). I am sure you made the comment more out of anger than out of sincerity, but nonetheless, let us remember that this is the highest office in the land, the Presidency, and that we all need to take this election as seriously as possible and that we ought to vote based on issues between the candidates and not between the presidential nominees and unaffiliated third party individuals.
First, when Falwell and Robinson and the others say what they do, they are nearly always shouted down by folks who are also on the right. There is very little cheerleading on their own "side". That doesn't give them much encouragement and they're not so inclined to speak that loudly again. There's almost no shouting down from the left at all - even from the left "moderates".
Second, in the cases of Falwell and Robertson, their particular congregations had a bit to do with their silence. Falwell in particular is still an active and popular pastor whose church would rather see him do much less with politics and more with his actual job as a pastor. Aside from the occasional "talking head" appearance, I've seen litttle from him outside his ministry. I suspect that Robertson is getting much the same treatment from his flock.
I think you miss the point. To a large extent, I too will be voting for Bush out of a distaste for the Democrat's glad-handling of the hard-left fringe. I disagree with Bush on essentially every science-oriented issue (stem cell research being the most prominant), on the idea of amending the constitution regarding Gay Marriage, and a host of other issues.
However, the Democratic Party's willingness to kowtow to the obviously anti-American hard left makes them, quite simply, unfit to lead. I don't want a president who counts among his most important constituencies, a group of people who despise America. And Michael Moore and his cheering throngs have made it abundantly clear that they despise America.
In the long run, W's impact on science is likely to be miniscule and I think it extremely unlikely that the FMA will pass. So, W's impact on the things with which I disagree with him is far less important than his unwavering committment to aggressively counter the threat that Islamic fascism poses to the West in an age where WMDs are increasingly available.
James: WildMonk said it so very well for me. Democrats' refusal to distance themselves from the most vile and hateful invective, the willingness of national Democratic politicians and the head of the Democratic National Committee himself not just to be seen with Michael Moore but to praise his work, brings the entire leadership of the party into question. And John Kerry, as the Democratic Nominee for President, is now the head of his party, respresenting their voice in the upcoming election. Where is he on Michael Moore? Where is he on the people who compare America to Nazi Germany, to Stalinist Russia, who say we went to war for oil and at the behest of Halliburton? That is vile, hateful, unpatriotic crap.
And don't tell me I'm saying this merely because I support Bush. I tried very, very hard over the last year to be fair to Democrats. I loudly criticized Howard Dean and worked for his defeat, but I tried hard to be nice to Wes Clark, to John Edwards, and I openly endorsed Lieberman and said I would vote for him over Bush if he were nominated because I thought he'd lead the country and his party in very positive directions. I think the people calling John Kerry a "traitor" for his anti-Vietnam War protests are being complete jerks and I've said so more than once.
Again, WildMonk: "The Democratic Party's willingness to kowtow to the obviously anti-American hard left makes them, quite simply, unfit to lead."
Yep.
Hey, I'm all about the crushing of dissent, as long as the crushing is done by citizens calling an idiot an idiot and not by the government. If I can't do my little part to crush dissent as a citizen of this country, I'm going to wonder just where the heck my First Amendment rights went.
What Dean and Jimmie said; you lie down with dogs, you come up with fleas...
It was back in the 1960's that the right purged itself of its lunatic fringe (best typified by the John Birch Society) and while we get the odd looney showing up on our side these days, we pretty swiftly set them out to pasture...meanwhile, in 2004, the head of the Democratic National Committee attends an anti-American hate-flick and calls it a good thing....
Of course we all lose our tempers now and then. Dean freely admits to being imperfect in this regard, which is why regulars to this establishment will generally be cut more slack than people who we don't know very well.
Still: behave like an adult, or go find somewhere else to play. Thanks.