Dean -

Not really, if your think about it this way: Consenting adults are free to do as they wish; however, if you make a commitment to another person you should honor it. If you feel you cannot, then get a divorce and be honest about that. Don't lie and sneak around. The sex/marriage/adultery attitudes seem to be more about being honest and true to your word than acting like a libertine. Or at least that's the impression I got.

As someone whose terms of marriage and level of outside involvement have been such that I never had reason to lie and sneak around, I would say that BAW has it exactly right.

It will be interesting to see how the gay marriage debate will play into these numbers in, say, five years.

I am clueless as to why you see cognitive dissonance between approval of the concept of having children and sex out of wedlock and disapproval of cheating. I see no conflict at all; apples and oranges. Breaking trust is the key. Just because people aren't officially married doesn't preclude them from being committed.

I think the percentages on "having a baby outside of marriage" are too close to say "most people" find it morally acceptable. It's definitely much closer than the other examples you cite.

I can see the cognitive dissonance argument much more if you include having a baby outside marriage, but if you remove that particular issue from the equation, the stances make more sense.

Personally, I have much more of an issue with having a baby outside of marriage than the others, since it introduces a wholly innocent third party into the mix.

Personally, I have much more of an issue with having a baby outside of marriage than the others, since it introduces a wholly innocent third party into the mix.

Roger that.

It's still dissonant, for if marriage isn't about committment and it isn't about kids, what is it? Simply a vague ideal? Or an imprisonment? No wonder people are afraid of it.

And then the fact that it's not a big deal to divorce?

To me it points to a lack of clear views on what marriage is, why we have it--except that it's supposed to be very serious and very important, so much so that apparently it's preferable to divorce than to cheat--indeed, sleeping around before marriage, having kids out of wedlock, and divorce are all considered less serious than adultery.

It points to a culture in transition to me--still in transition I mean. We don't know what marriage is. We think its very important, and it's about lifelong sex with one person unless you decide to call it splitsville, and, apparently, that's all it is really.

Methinks this is an institution that will be looking radically different in the next generation. Whether that's good or bad depends on your viewpoint I guess.

The dissonance between accepting sex outside of marriage, acceptable divorce and not accepting extramarital affairs makes sense if you consider that people view marriage as a commitment, and if you aren't going to keep the commitment, then you shouldn't be married, but just let your hormones rage in the single gene pool.

Those all make some sort of sense within the confines of changing attitudes.

The one that really doesn't make sense is the acceptance of children outside of marriage, given the generally held view that children from single-parent homes start out at a disadvantage socially and emotionally. If two people get a divorce and there are no children, it's more of a case of "no harm, no foul." But if you get divorced with children, or if you have children and are not in some sort of committed relationship (usually symbolized by a marriage contract), then you're really screwing over your children, showing a distinct lack of concern for their well-being (excluding extreme circumstances such as abuse, of course).

And yes, I speak as a child of divorce, who's also been divorced and am now married and the father of two and one-on-the-way.

My personal view is that divorce shouldn't be so easily obtained when children are involved, and both parents should be held accountable for the well-being of the children (if that means they should have to remain in the near vicinity for visitation, then so be it).

as for the radical reshaping of the "family," yes, unfortunately, that's bound to happen. I don't think this will be necessarily a good thing in many ways, and I don't know exactly how our culture will adapt to that.

It's sort of like this conversation I had with a guy recently who told me that the very concept of "gender" was going to be radically altered in coming decades, not only to include heterosexual male and female, but homosexual male, female, transgender and "questioning." By that he meant, there would be a whole new classification for gender based on people who didn't know what they were and wouldn't ever know.

To which I can only shake my head and say: "huh?"

Dean,

I'm with you on this - there is a congnitive dissonance between the acceptability of pre-marital sex and childbearing and the unacceptability of adultery. In my view, out of wedlock birth if a far worse thing than extramartial sexual affairs.

We are a society in transition - but my view is that we're transitioning back into an understanding that morality is all of a piece and cannot be broken up into parts. Either a percent is morally decent, or not - there is no half-way house; you can't get along by saying "well, I had a kid out of wedlock, but at least I didn't cheat on the girl while we made our bastard"...

Eventually we'll go back to the old ways of thinking on this matter.

I'm glad I think for myself. My values are _not_ shaped by Gallup polls or what other people think. I say homosexual relationships are _not_ morally wrong, are morally right and good. I say homosexuality is as good as heterosexuality. Gynosexuality and androsexuality. I'm for homosexual marriage because I'm for homosexuality _and_ I'm for marriage.

Sexual relations must be between consenting adults and should be within a committed, faithful relationship, a _total commitment_, a vow of eternal fidelity, the holy bond of wedlock, i.e., marriage.

Gambling is not a sin. Abortion, at least after the first trimester, is homicide if not murder.

That's what I think, that's how I feel, that's where I stand.