Back in January, in the comments to this thread, Sheila asked me what happened to change my mind about communism. I had once been an apologist for it, and she was curious about my change of heart. This is what I said:
I have a friend who likes to say that hate is an unhealthy emotion because it makes you sick inside. But I always argue with him. I say that hate is a normal human emotion, and that it only sickens you if you hate the wrong people. If you can't hate mass-murderers and people who crush the human spirit, then there is something sick in your soul already. If you can't hate an Adolph Hitler or a Joseph Stalin or a Mao Tse Tung, there's something sad about you. In my view, anyway. Not because it's about despising your fellow man, but because it's about despising the worst in the human animal.
Well, while I'd like to tell you there was some dramatic event that caused the change, but it wasn't. It was a sort of gradual thing, mostly. Part of it was that I became self-employed, and did that for a number of years, and started to realize as a result that there's not much in this world that anyone can do for you unless they have power, and you have to give someone power in order to let them do things for you.If that makes any sense? I'm not sure.
Then there was learning about the Berlin Wall. I for a while bought into the fact that it was a "defensive" wall, until I started to see documentaries and read about it, and I had to ask myself: "If their system is so great, why are they shooting people in the back for trying to escape?"
Last week I was in Grand Rapids for a wedding, and by coincidence the Gerald Ford Museum was across the street from our hotel. President Ford was a congressman from that area, and that's where he still lives. So being a history geek I went to check it out. Not that he was all that amazing a Presidenet, but what the hell, it was right across the street. There was a huge slab from the Berlin Wall there in the lobby. It was concrete, with metal wires and rocks embedded in it. On one side were some black painted-on numbers. On the other, wildly colorful graffiti. It was obvious by this alone which side had faced West, and which East. I remember reaching up to touch it, feeling the cold concrete reality of it, and my soul thrummed a little.
I used to apologize for these people. I felt a little ashamed, and a little proud. My country, my Presidents, helped tear down this wall.
Like you, I enjoy history. I've read any number of books, and magazine articles, on this subject over the last 15 years. But about a year and a half ago, I picked up a copy of "The Black Book of Communism," and read it from cover to cover. Reading it was sort of the breaking point for me. I mean, by then I'd already decided I had been wrong, that Communism was by its very nature an impossible system, one that could only oppress people if it were ever to work. So I already knew I was wrong, that I'd been foolish, that it was a good thing the Soviet Union was gone. But I don't know if I can describe what it was like reading this book anyway. It was, and is, the only work which attempts to simply list all the crimes of Communism in one place. The crimes of every regime are listed there, the big ones and the little ones: the Soviet Union, Poland, China, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Cuba, Chile, Peru... everywhere where Communists had an influence, big or small.
It was gripping, and it was hard, and I made myself read every page of it. I felt like a puppy getting his nose rubbed in a pile of shit. Often I just sat and read. Sometimes, my hands shook. A few times, I cried. And I can only tell you my conclusion:
I hate these people. And if you don't, there's something wrong with you.
In the 1940s, Joseph Stalin erected a wall in Berlin to keep people who sought freedom from escaping. Freedom-loving people everywhere opposed him.
I was born in 1966. Lyndon Johnson was President at that time. After him, in order, there was Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush. Perhaps after Bush there will be Kerry, or perhaps not. But I have no doubt, no doubt at all, that the greatest words spoken by a President in my lifetime were these:
General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!I voted against Ronald Reagan in my first vote for President in 1984.
In retrospect, I was a fool.
I think I will always remember president Reagan for his notable moments together with Mikhail Gorbachev, and even more so with the four of them together as guests of one another, Ronald and Nancy Reagan and Mikhail and Raisa Gorbachev. Without the trust that grew between Reagan and his soviet counterpart, it is doubtful that an end to the cold war of the previous decades would have been achieved, and with it, the passage of state socialism in eastern Europe.
I know for sure that Nancy did not take well to Raisa. Nancy was aloof, Raisa didactic; the former did not adjust to receiving lectures from the latter on almost any subject. And Raisa was mistrusted by the Russian old guard. She was in fact the most in-your-face public personality among the wives of leaders of the Russian state since Alexandra played a key role in dominating Nicholas before his overthrow and the murder of their family in 1918.
But Raisa's death from leukemia was considered a Russian national tragedy, and Gorbachev's day and night vigil at the bedside of his dying wife was an unforgettable statement on human love.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
I will always think of Reagan as the triumph of image over substance---a congenial and well-meaning man who fueled an illusionary economic recovery with conspicious consumption and massive deficits, a mess his successors had to clean up.
I think of the most corrupt White House of the 20th Century---Reagan still holds the record for White House officials charged with crimes (over 100, up to and including cabinet members) during his term in office.
And of course I'll always remember the secret shadow government in the White House basement, conducting foreign policy by running guns and laudering the profits.
He seemed like a very nice man---but we are still paying the price for his voodoo economics and his contempt for the law.
illusionary economic recovery
You mean millions of Americans believe it happened, but it didn't? All that extra money in people's pockets was an illusion? All those new jobs were an illusion? We were all broke and living in refrigerator cartons, but because he told us we were prosperous and becoming homeowners, we believed it?
Man, we Americans are a bunch of sheep. I'm sure glad you straightened me out on that.
Well said, Dean.
BTW, post #2 in this topic is misplaced. It belongs in the new topic, "Embracing Ignorance."
I admire President Reagan. His stand against Communism, ridiculed by the "fuzzy Liberal" intellectuals, was what finally did tear down the Berlin Wall and Communism in Russia and Europe.
Unfortunately, we still have the Communists with us in China, in Cuba (90 miles off the Florida coast), and, most of all, here in America. The Communists hate President Reagan. I hate the Communists.
Dean wrote:
"There was a huge slab from the Berlin Wall there in the lobby. It was concrete, with metal wires and rocks embedded in it. On one side were some black painted-on numbers. On the other, wildly colorful graffiti. It was obvious by this alone which side had faced West, and which East."
That says it all -- squarely.
Dean wrote:
"I say that hate is a normal human emotion, and that it only sickens you if you hate the wrong people. If you can't hate mass-murderers and people who crush the human spirit, then there is something sick in your soul already. If you can't hate an Adolph Hitler or a Joseph Stalin or a Mao Tse Tung, there's something sad about you. In my view, anyway. Not because it's about despising your fellow man, but because it's about despising the worst in the human animal."
I totally agree. I hate all those who hate my freedom.
Arnold Harris wrote:
"But Raisa's death from leukemia was considered a Russian national tragedy, and Gorbachev's day and night vigil at the bedside of his dying wife was an unforgettable statement on human love."
That is very moving, tragic and noble. And now Nancy must mourn for the man she so loved and who so loved her.
I also admire President Ford. He was both a far better President and a far better ex-President than the President who succeeded him -- and who was in turn succeeded by President Reagan.
Dean--
I am with you!
Unfortunately, I was still too young and too impressed with liberalism to realize the greatness of Reagan when he was president. I sat out the election of his 2nd term because I couldn't "bring myself" to vote for either candidate.
As I aged, I realized how much of what the Left said about him was propaganda and false. I became to appreciate how major his accomplishments were.
That they were achieved while Reagan gave the image of being a genial, easy-going "cowboy" is all the more impressive.
"In retrospect, I was a fool."
We are all born fools. Wisdom comes only after a lifetime of mistakes, when we finally realize our error, and feel ashamed.
Hate is a personal emotion, to me. I can't hate anybody I don't know personally. In this media age we probably know our politicians better than any time past, so it is possible I guess to hate them, their mannerisms and what they say. I don't hate or despise President Bush though. Maybe a year or two ago I did but I've since had a change of heart.
I'd say I despise them (the dictators).
But Reagan, yeah. Hmmm. Style over substance, I would agree. Magnificent style though, and sometimes style is substance, as it was with Reagan.
I disagreed with a majority of Reagan's positions, but I think he conveyed a sense of faith and hope to the people, for which he deserves much credit.
I don't regeret voting for either Carter or Mondale, but Reagan was a lot more enjoyable to listen to. He also placed a couple of relative moderates on the Supreme Court. Reagan was fairly accomplished at the art of political negotiation and the forming of foreign alliances.
On the other hand, I'm not going to paper over my concerns about Reagan. He largely ignored the AIDS crisis, was cruel in his attitude toward migrant farm workers, and was an enthusiastic supporter of the Vietnam War. He heaped scorn on the valliant Robert Kennedy and vehemently opposed the 1965 Civil Rights Bill. He had no use for Martin Luther King, Jr., later writing former New Hampshire Gov. Meldrim Thompson that he supported a King holiday only because the people wanted it, not because he had any regard for King.
Sandra Day O'Connor might be called a moderate. Anthony Kennedy was an extremist in the defense of my liberty in John Geddes Lawrence and Tyron Garner vs. Texas. Another June 26 is coming, and I'm going to celebrate!
Ronald Reagan was a giant. He parked his heart and his faith in America and America is the better off for it. Here are his words in 1964:
"You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness. If we fail, at least let our children and our children's children say of us we justified our brief moment here. We did all that could be done."
Reagan had a quality about him that oozed Presidential stature. He projected the strength of America without the arrogance. Few presidents in the last 50 years had that quality. (Kennedy, Reagan, and Clinton) I would have gladly accepted a 3rd term from Reagan along with a 3rd term for Clinton. Imagine 12 years of Reagan followed by 12 years of Clinton. Remember, many of Reagan's policies would be considered "liberal" by today's GOP standards.
OTS, I think he should have picked Dole rather than Bush 41 as his VP.
I was married during the Carter term. I remember going to the store each week and prices going up *each week* and *every week* and not by a penny, either. I *remember* double-digit inflation. One year it was 14%. Most of you have never lived under anything like that; you're too young (or weren't doing the purchasing, anyway). Imagine trying to buy a house under that kind of inflation.
Don't tell me about *illusionary* economic recovery,
Meezer
Amen to that! My husband and I bought our second house when mortgage rates started at 16.5% but the seller "bought" the rate down for us to 13.5%. However, we paid about $6000 too much for the house so WE really paid the buy down. And I remember so well the groceries going up EVERY week. I remember one time I cried as I unpacked the groceries because I had spent so much and bought so little.
Then in Reagan's second or third year of the first term in office, I was astounded to learn that inflation was UNDER 4%! when, like you, I remembered so well those horrible years when it was double digit. Yeah, I remember well how much the "illusionary" economic improvement affected my life in a very "real" way.
Arnold and Jane, I'm glad that you benefited from Reagans' policies. I just wonder if you know who paid for it:
**your kids, who had to pay off the massive deficit he ran up, or
**the mentally ill, who were turned out into the street by the thousands when Reagan decimated the public health care system, thus inventing the homeless problems in our cities, or
**the poor, who found the social services that kept them alive revoked to ppay for SDI (which,as we all know, doesn't work for shit) or
**poor and working class students who had to leave school after Reagan slashed Pell grants and low-income loans. Instead of getting the education that would have enabled them to get better paying jobs, they became part of a permanent underclass. But hey...someone's gotta pick up the garbage, right?
The Reagan policies that enriched you were paid for with very real human suffering.
Reagan helped make the rich richer and the poor poorer---and THAT is propably his most enduring legacy.
Bullshit. Because of the economic growth the poor could finally get jobs! HELLO! Hell, because of Reagan the poor could afford to eat because of the low inflation caused by his 'voodoo' economics. Hmmm... the social services that "kept them alive" were cut and yet bodies didn't pile up in the streets. It must be magic.
Also, what did he do to migrant workers? Iirc he gave them a frickin amnesty.
Don,
Fascinating post, but as you know it's all false. On deficits, if Reagan's budgets had not been inflated by the left in Congress as a ransom for a decent defense then the deficit would not have been much different than Clinton's. The hugh cost of the 80's was Tip O'Neil social agenda.
On the mentally ill and homeless, it was a court decision that outlawed the involuntary confinement of the mentally ill. Reagan had nothing to do with it, and you know it. Homelessness doesn't disappear when a Democrat is in the White House, but reporting of it does.
On the poor, ah, the poor. By any consistant standard, poverty declined during the Reagan years. Some expensive and useless social programs were eliminated or cut back. The poor had more chance to escape poverty under Reagan, and you liberals hate that. No embittered poor, no Democratic votes. BTW SDI did what it was intended to do, bankrupt the Soviet Union. You may not think that's an accomplishment, but I do.
All those poor students thrown out of school during the Reagan era must be doing pretty well. It's close to impossible to find a US citizen over age 21 who will work for minimum wage. Poverty helps Democrats, so why is America swinging to the Republicans?
Reagan's policies enriched almost everyone and the human suffering is mostly among bureaucrats who are upset that they can't tell me how to run my life. Carter created misery by trying to equalize poverty. Reagan realized inequality of result is not the worst problem. So long as everyone gets better, the fact some do even better than that is not a problem.
Reagan's legacy is that we can laugh at your distortions. He gave us spirit and not the blackest pessimism of the left can take it back. You may always hate Reagan, and it's certainly your right to do so. You can not convince those of us who there.
"was an enthusiastic supporter of the Vietnam War."
And he was right, as the Killing Fields reveal.
It's dangerous to talk of government policy during the Reagan administration as "Reagan's" policies, because the Democratic congress had a lot of influence.
Tim,
Why do you think Reagan was more liberal than today's GOP? Social conservatism is in decline, and tax rates are at least as high today as they were in the '80s.
You provide an interesting post yourself, Ken. It's so full rhetorical fallicies and factual distorions that it could be used as a conter-example in any freshman intro to logic class.
Reagan's legacy is to help the wealthy and the sheep laugh at the poor and the disadvantaged. Enjoy it while you can.
Reagan was always a smart smart man. After all, he did vote for FDR 4 times!!!
He selected the first woman on the Supreme Court, the HeadStart program, he grew the federal government, he bailed-out social security, the Tax Reform Act of 1986 resulted in the largest corporate tax increase in history, and he envisioned a world free of nuclear weapons (to include the U.S.).
He truly was a uniter not a divider. The man sitting in the chair now is nothing more than a smirking chimp.
Don,
Okay, want to try to point out a fallacy? Or like your original post, do you prefer to make unsupported statements and dismiss any dissent with "everybody knows that"? I'm sure you're willing to back up your statements? Right?
I'd like to believe that you might have something to confirm any of your assertions, but I'm sure that they taught you in that freshman logic class that truth is relative and you can say whatever you want because facts don't matter.
Were you in the Carter gas lines? Do you remember the silly colored flags that meant essentially that there was no gas? Did you get refused service because your license plate ended in the wrong number?
Do you remember the misery index? Home loans at interest rates that threatened to destroy the dream of your first house? Inflation up? Unemployment up? Stagflation? Marginal income tax rates at 70% and deficits rising?
Do you remember the Iranian hostage crisis? 444 days of tension, tears and futility. A crippled military? Botched rescue missions and White House attempts to understand the demonic Khomeni? Soviet advances in Asia and Latin America?
Do you remeber the malaise? The crisis of confidence in America and in ourselves? Do you remember America in 1980? I do.
This was what Reagan inherited. A great country sunk into confusion and agony by a weak President and a party dedicated to gaining reelection by bribing every group under the sun. A Congress dedicated to tax, spend, elect politics. Soviets troops in Afghanistan. Cuban troops in Angola and Grenada. The Berlin Wall.
You can belittle my logic but you can't refute my memory. Had Jimmy Carter been reelected there might be no America today, it's possible either way, but there would be a Soviet Union. Inflation might have come down, or it might still be over 20%. The poor would be poorer and the rich would be too. Shared poverty is the legacy of liberalism.
Sorry Don, you got caught. Trying telling someone who wasn't there.
Don,
If Reagan's policies were so bad, why did Clinton change them only moderately? Clinton signed welfare reform that Reagan never did (although I guess he would have liked to) and raised taxes, but not nearly to Carter era levels. Why is that? Are you saying the economy did poorly under Clinton?