That Daily Kos is a partisan hack with a penchant for cherry-picking out-of-context quotes to attack his opponents is well-known. But hey, that's nothing new, right? A lot of irresponsible people, both right and left, have that habit. It's a big part of what guys like Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore do for a living.
But it's gotten worse with Kos. It started, for me, when he actually suggested that he wanted the economy to worsen so Bush won't get re-elected. Then, there was the incident where he viciously spat on the memory of U.S. veterans who were working as civilian guards for food aide convoys, and tried to cover it up, for which I (to my regret, now) tried to make excuses for him.
Well, 1, 2, 3 strikes you're out: he has now shown himself to be a purveyor vicious racial hatemonger.
I won't say I'm surprised. Just disgusted and nauseated, once again, by the bilous hatred that's overcome the political left in this country. More distressing is that people I would otherwise respect are still reading this guy, citing him and his site's contents approvingly, and, in the case of some politicians, actually advertising on his site.
I have said many times that most of the left is no longer liberal. That they have sadly become dominated by kneejerk, often cruel, reactionaries. I can think of no finer example than Daily Kos. Barring news of a major transformation in this demagogue's character, I will never read him again, or take seriously anyone who cites him. He's gone far beyond the pale.
* Update * To be clear, this is one of the authors of the site who wrote this, not the site's owner, Zuniga. Doesn't change anything--this clearly tips Daily Kos firmly into the hate-site category.
The offending article there wasn't written by Kos himself; it was written by someone named "Soj".
Dowingba,
Big deal - if, say, Blogs for Bush allowed a post with racial slurs you'd be, rightly, all over it...you are, partially, who you hang out with....
Dean,
Taking a look at it, its a bit flabbergasting the complaints they have - outside of their disgusting slur on Powell, they seem to be complaining, for instance, that the US will remain in overall command of the armed forces in Iraq...forgetting, I guess, that we're also in command in Europe and Korea...and have been for decades.
As for the attitude of the left - you took me to task some months back ago when I opined that the left is nothing more than a bunch of junior-league Leninists...QED, from what I can see.
True, dow, but as Truman used to say "The Buck Stops Here."
In other words, someone has to accept responsibility. In this case, Kos can't just duck the issue. That stuff was published on his website, and as such that makes him responsible.
Unless, of course, he repudiates that disgusting, racist little bugger 200%.
This is something I doubt he'll do, considering his track record on the "screw them" thread.
Yep, yes-sirree. The Tolerant Liberals have Spoken: any black American who works for, or advocates the policies of the Bush administration is a cringing Uncle Tom.
I need a bath...
Dean,
I think dowingba has a point--please at least mention that the author isn't Kos himself. I'm not defending Kos for what he allows on his site, but I think there is a legitimate distinction between claiming such words as your own and providing a forum for those words.
That said, I checked out the comment thread and was reminded why I don't read Kos. I thought Kos was supposed to be one of the "liberals" (meaning mainstream Democrats) in the blogosphere, not a part of the reactionary Left. It was nice to see some people objecting to the racist "Uncle Tom" rhetoric, but the balance of the comments do not speak well for Kos' core commenters, if this thread is typical.
Here's a great quote:
"Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off." Colin Powell
Mark, just to clear things up, I highly doubt I'd be all over anything said on Blogs For Bush, as I can't say as I ever read that weblog, ever.
I agree, Daily Kos (the site) is horrible. But I'm not about to blame Kos (the person) for not deleting something posted by some random individual who happens to have a diary there. Why not blame the random individual (in this case, "Soj")?
Now, I don't read dKos very often. For all I know, the whole site could just be a big pot o' racism. I'm not speaking from experience, here. Just that post Dean links to above, which complains about racist comments made by this "Soj" fellow/gal.
This is a good point. Daily Kos is the name of the site, not a person--but that should be clarified.
Just notice Mark's comment--Jesus Mark, talk about stereotyping yourself. Lenin was a mass-murderer and a man who intentionally advocated flat-out lying as a form of political propaganda. Stereotyping anyone and everyone left-of-center as "junior league Leninists" is no different from stereotyping everyone right-of-center as "junior league Brown Shirts" or whatever. Let's get a grip, eh?
"...bilous hatred that's overcome the political left in this country"
I'm glad a non-conservative recognizes it.
I went there, read the post and the comments. One word: Pathetic.
It does not matter in the least that Kos didn't personally write the post. It's his site; he's the publisher of record. If you open your site to others, you are responsible for what those people post. This wasn't some screed tucked away in the comment section; it was on the main site.
And Soj put it there even though she has her own blog because she wanted the eyeballs that her own site doesn't draw. She's using Kos's traffic to forward her veiled racist (she calls Haiti "Sambo") agenda.
If he leaves it there, he's a co-author, in my eyes, and deserves to take the heat.
I too am dismayed by the DU-isation of Kos. But I'd hestistate before castigating the entire political left or claiming that it dominated by random anonymous internet bloggers, any more than I'd claim that the political right is dominated by bilious hate-filled racial supremicists. Dean, of course never hesitates to make such a characterisation.
As for your update, Dean, I'd be interested to know if you were initially aware that kos didn't write that post because it sure seems like you weren't. If you were, well it'd be a pity to see you sink to that level. If you weren't, a more emphatic clarification would be in order.
A further question Dean, did you make any attempt to contact Kos, or ask him to remove the post before you branded him a racist?
Did he have to?
If Command Post, for example, let a racist post up by one of its subordinate commentators go up there and stay up there all day, *two* people would go up on the hook for it -- the commentator who wrote it, and Michele. The author for writing it, and Michele for not taking it down.
To use a print example, if the Anytown Daily News ran a racist editorial, you'd have at least two people to pillory for it -- the writer, for writing it... and the editor, for not throwing it in the trash can as soon as it hit his desk.
This isn't some lone nut ranting in the comments section we're talking about. This is somebody who Kos lets write in his blog as a co-commentator. Kos had a responsibility to pull the comment as soon as he saw it.
It's been up there for at least fourteen hours by now.
Kos & Co. are average liberals. The difference is, and it's becoming less of a difference as things get better (worse for liberals), they're getting desperate and their disguise is slipping.
There's nothing different in forty years.
I did civil rights work in Mississippi in the Sixties and the same thing was true. Our trust-fund Bolshies were extremely unhappy with any Black who didn't hew to the party line and make sure to stay on Massa Liberal's plantation. Nothing's changed.
Well, seems as we're commenting on Daily Kos as a site, maybe some of you might actually read the responces to the posting? 3 or 4 people actually agreein with the sentiments, everone else condemning them.
As for your lone commentator bit - well that's exactly what Soj is: every commententator who registers can post diaries which don't come up on the main page, no restrictions.
I of course have never once, ever, said that all the political left has become hateful and bigoted. Just that it is increasingly dominated and overtaken by such rhetoric. But Max never hesitates to mischaracterize me in this fashion, so that's nothing new.
There have been times when the right has seemed increasingly dominated by such hatemongering. It isn't at the moment in my view.
My post stands as-is and, since Max has taken to mischaracterizing and smearing my words again, I have nothing further to say in response.
Except this: Max, if you do not cease your regular bad habit of mischaracterizing my remarks, you will get your ass banned. Consider this your first, last, and final warning. I am not here to take your abuse--and careless distortion of my words and lying about my record counts as abuse.
It was very obvious that Dean wasn't aware Kos didn't write it. That makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. Kos is responsible of policing his blog like anyone else.
We have standards on this blog and if anyone crosses the line we - delete. Kos has the power and many written requests went to Kos.
By allowing that to remain Kos is condoning it.
As for your lone commentator bit - well that's exactly what Soj is: every commententator who registers can post diaries which don't come up on the main page, no restrictions.
I put one up a month ago and was deleted promptly enough. Kos certainly doesn't want anyone to think he condones anything Bush has ever done. Sorry Max. Kos is guilty by association.
Colin Powell is an uncle tom.*
* As a random commentor on this website I've just tiped the website I've commented on into the hate site categorty. I don't mean that. That was a very racist post, imo, but Dean is judging a site by a commentor.
Daily Kos is a site, not a person. If the site's going to allow this stuff....
Never mind. I'm not explaining myself any more. I've had enough of this guy, or people trying to defend him.
The Left now has its very own Michael Savage. Proud day, innit?
I'd be interested to see how much slack the people here defending Kos would give the proprietor of a conservative site with an identical setup if a commentor posted a diary referring to Bill Clinton or another Democratic politician as a n*****-lover--which would be the functional equivalent of what the Kos diarist did: he's saying that Colin Powell is a traitor to his race.
It baffles me that sites like DKos are seen as an indication of the 'bilous hatred that's overcome the political left'.
I'm part of the left, and I've never knowingly spewed any bilious hatred (not counting the last time the bus drove away from the stop just as I go there - damned bus driver bastard).
It would be nice if someone could design some buttons we could put on our sites that read 'part of the GOOD left' to disavow ourselves from Kos. Maybe the right wing could have a similar button to disavow them from LGF.
Keith -
How about a button that reads: Stop being on my side. You're making my side look stupid.
I often wish for one of those.
I'd buy that for a dollar.
There are some perfectly reasonable sites on the left of the spectrum that keep things civil. An extremly good example of this is Harry's Place. He and his contributors gets just as angry at those on the left who get nasty as if that person were from the right.
Where is the moderate Left? Go to Drudge and check out this:
"Campaign 2004 turns extreme in Florida with the placement of a newspaper ad calling for physical retribution against Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld!
"We should put this S.O.B. up against a wall and say 'This is one of our bad days,' and pull the trigger," the ad reads."
http://www.drudgereport.com/rc7r.htm
My mind has been made up regarding the Left for a while, but I suspect things like this will convince many more that the Left is hopeless.
SOJ is nothing more than a standard user on DK. Anyone with a username can write a diary.
I hope that this innacurate, badly-spun article gets taken down post haste.
You link to Little Green Hatefest. Is Charles reponsible for what his comments say? He certainly dosen't think so.
The left is so hateful. I hate people who aren't politically correct like conservatives are.
Admittedly the large majority of people repudated that guy for what he said and he did apologize, but I don't think that that is important.
Hey Dean, did you get this pissed off when Insty linked approvingly to a known racist and anti-Semite?
Of course you didn't (I did a quick search of your site using the key words "air america").
Lets review. Glenn, the blog father, sticks up for a racist radio station and links to a know racist and anti-Semite. A random journal poster at Kos writes an more offensive post.
Why are all these people writing in and claiming the post was made by a commenter? Did they not read Dean's post and the comments above? Or are they just stupid?
Rhetorical question.
Dear Sir,
I think it is important that I clarify my point, given that you seem to believe it has been addressed already.
While it is quite accurate that Kos was not the poster of the hideous piece in question, it is important to draw the distinction between "Author" and "Standard User."
My understanding of the DK system is that Authors have the ability to put things on the front page. The writer of the hideous piece in question does not have such an ability, to the best of my knowledge.
As such, "Author" is not the best descriptor for the work.
Sincerely, and with every attempt to be decent and act with good conduct,
Hipocrite, easily contactable at grob22mm@hotmail.com if one finds this work to push things too far.
Your point is valid. As long as you decide to stick to facts and stop trolling and equivicating comment spam to actual host approved content.
I will not put up with abuse and I do not have to contact you. I will not allow you to insult our blog and demean our character. I have a right to my opinion and I believe I made my point.
You were being intentionally dense and I won't put up with it. I'm offended by intentional stupidity.
Dear Madame,
At no point did I equivicate comment spam with host approved content. I merely contrasted the acceptance of unstoppable comment spam with the prior statement that "If the site's going to allow this stuff..." That, combined with my assumption that what should follow would be a negative epithet that has the initial F, followed by the word "it," brought me to the unavoidable conclusion that if Kos can be brought to task for someone he had not approved posting racist content, the proprietors elsewhere can likewise be wrongly blamed for unstoppable comment spam.
People are offending by many things.
Spare me. That is exactly what you did.
I stated clearly that Kos could not be held responsible for any COMMENT. COMMENTS are DIFFERENT than Blog postings/diaries.
Bloggers don't always see the comments for every thread. They do see the posts. Kos was emailed about it by several bloggers, myself included, that it was offensive.
Dear Madame,
You spare me! Kos does not always see every diary that is posted. In fact, they are a great deal like comments, except that they have no set topic. Perhaps you did not know this?
Now, as soon as we have evidence that Kos has read the emails sent to him, and decided to ignore the diary, we can revist this topic. Untill then, I will note that the Little Green Lizards have been attacking him for the past week, and that perhaps, just perhaps, a lot of the people that are "outraged" over this have already been filtered out for their past "outrages"
You don't have much of a clue on this. I have been reading Kos and I posted diaries. I have had my diaries deleted just because they are pro-Bush. No profanity and no bigotry just some good old fashion kudos to the President.
My diary lasted an hour before I was deleted and warned.
Whatever.
And as soon as you show me that Kos knows about this Diary, I'll be just as angry as I was about the screw them bit, the same way I expect that the three pron comments I pointed out to you before are gone now.
Dean & Rosemary,
Why do you guys even argue with the likes of Hipocrite?
Sincerely,
Jacitelli
Only because I don't want anyone to get the impression that by not responding, we agree.
Cuz, we don't.
At least he chose his handle appropriately.
Events like these shouldn't detract from the respect given to the Polstate.com website which provides great political news. For those who don't know Kos created and finances the website.
Dean,
There's a difference between Lenin's flat-out lies and the flat-out lies the left spreads about President Bush?
Come one, you're dodging - you know full well that if one of the anti-Bush people figured he'd get some mileage out of it, he'd tell the most stupendous whopper with a straight face...now, our domestic leftists haven't gone off and murdered a couple million people, but thats because they can't...and soon as they got the power to kill, we'd bee knee deep in corpses. Its the nature of the left - love humanity, hate humans. They're "junior league" these days because they haven't sufficient power to move up to the big league...the task of all rational people is to ensure they always lack this power...
Dean,
Though, to give you the benefit here, I think you might have misunderstood a bit - perhaps you thought I was calling them communists or something; Lenin wasn't a communist; he was Lenin, who used a sort of kindergarten Marxism to dress up his nihilism and cruelty.
The modern left still retains a great deal of that infantile Marxism spread by Lenin, but they've added to it a host of other bizarre ideas....multiculturalism, greenism, etc...and all of that is entirely unimportant. Whats important is how essentially bloodthirsty and hate-filled they all are. They didn't riot in Seattle because they were just having a bad day - and comparing President Bush to Hitler isn't just a bit of street-theater; both of these things are evidence of a much deeper anti-human ideology..."Leninist" is just a nifty bit of shorthand.
Mark, do you have any idea how bad you make the right look when you talk like that? Yeesh.
We should get you and Dave Neiwert together in the same room, since he's convinced that everyone to the right of Bill Clinton is both a Nazi and a Stalinist at heart and would kill something like half the world given a chance.
There is a core hatred to many on the left, yes, but you paint with such a ridiculously large brush you sound like Ann Coulter.
"Where is the moderate Left? Go to Drudge and check out this..."
Looking for the moderate left at Drudge's site is a bit like looking for a nun in a strip bar. If you find one, it's a perverse accident.
"While it is quite accurate that Kos was not the poster of the hideous piece in question, it is important to draw the distinction between 'Author' and 'Standard User.'"
Maybe it is. But does a first time visitor clicking a simple link to Daily Kos have an obligation to go the extra yard to figure out who/what/how, or should that be made plainly obvious on the page itself? The big masthead on that page said "Daily Kos." Not "Soj."
If there is confusion about the site, how it functions, and is perceived, that isn't the fault of the visitor. It's the fault of the site.
"And as soon as you show me that Kos knows about this Diary, I'll be just as angry as I was about the screw them bit..."
Is there no accountability left in this world whatsoever? In what name is that domain registered? Who is collecting the more than three grand a week in Blogads from that site? How you can possibly think that a domain owner is not responsible for what appears on their site, and if they are not aware of the content, that's not a glaring fault on their part?
And, by the way, I don't buy the similar argument presented about LGF, that you simply can't moderate that much content. If you can't, you've created yourself a problem. Because it is on the web in your name, if you own the domain on which it appears. There's no obligation to provide access to comments, or add additional "Authors," or even "Standard Users." Those are all choices a site owner makes. And if you make it, you have an obligation to deal with the results.
If you don't, there is no one else to blame except the name that shows up when you WHOIS the domain. You bought it, you own it, you made the choices about who can use it, and you also own the consequences.
Is blogspot.com responsible for the content of all the x.blogspot.com blogs? Why or why not? Compare and contrast to Kos.
Hipocrite,
Which name appears on the masthead, which address appears on the address line and which hipocrite thinks it is reasonable to compare a blogging service with a single political blog?
No comparison.
Yours,
Wince