Soundfury has asked me about my criticism of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA).
First off, I'll note that any person or organization should be open to criticism. Criticism is a good thing, not a bad thing, at least when it's honest and not merely antagonistic. Besides, I've often praised AA. I've even created an alcohol abuse archive with most of what I've written on the matter, and you can see for yourself that some of it is very positive. I merely note that AA's not for everyone--and by the way, so did AA's founder Bill W. For some people, AA is the only thing that works. For others, it's a poor fit. We ought to be able to acknowledge that without being angry or defensive about it.
I have another issue, though, and that is that every time--every single time--I say anything to question what they tell you at AA meetings, suggest that not everyone drunk needs AA, or say that there are things that bother me about the AA credo, I get scads of angry letters, defensive comments, and insinuations about my character. I can no longer count the number of times in the last five and a half weeks that I have been told that I am:
1) In denial
2) Think I know everything
3) Think I'm smarter than other drunks
4) Not truly committed to recovery
5) Will fall off the wagon soon
6) Am hurting alcoholics by discouraging them from seeking AA
I'm bracing myself for still more of all of the above just for posting this article.
Then again, whenever I say anything skeptical of AA, or mention alternatives such as Women for Sobriety, Moderation Management, Rational Recovery, SMART Recovery, books on quitting without AA, or people who claim that A.A. caused them problems, you know what else I get?
1) Emails from people who left AA because they hated it, and got sober anyway.
2) Emails from women thanking me for turning them on to Women for Sobriety because they liked it so much better than AA.
3) People who found that they could, after all, moderate their drinking, and were angry that AA told them they could never moderate.
4) Emails from AA members who've been with the organization for over 10 years, but who encourage me. "Whatever works, do it, and call or write me any time if you need help," they tell me.
I have found the last group to be the most inspiring, by the way.
Then, there are some other letters I've gotten from the people still struggling with alcohol. I've gotten several that go a lot like this:
"I can't stop drinking, but I hate those AA meetings so much. They just make me feel worse. I've decided I'm constitutionally incapable of change. I'm powerless before alcohol, and I'd rather drink than go to any more of their meetings. I hope you can save yourself, it's too late for me."
I've also gotten mails that just say things like, "I'm having trouble with alcohol too, thanks for sharing your struggle and not being afraid to ask questions or explore alternatives." Indeed, I got another one just like that last night.
It's a little humbling, because people are asking me for advice and I'm still stumbling a bit in the dark myself. Then again, I haven't had a drink since February 26th, so I guess that's worth something. More to the point, I think an awful lot of people are simply not comfortable with group meetings, or have issues with the 12-step approach, and are glad to see that there are alternatives that can be explored.
The fact of the matter is that there are alternatives to AA which seem to work a lot better for some people. I haven't set foot in an AA meeting in more than a month. I have no intention of attending anther one, either, because I simply don't like them. But I have used the services of a psychologist who is herself an alcoholic who has not had a drink in 15 years--and who herself does not endorse AA. The woman's got her Ph.D. and treats drunks and addicts for a living. But no AA for her, and not for most of her clients either.
Being honest with yourself is the most important thing. That's one thing I'll never argue with the AA folks about. But beyond that, we need to stop treating this or any other treatment plan like it cannot be questioned, cannot be improved upon, or cannot be a negative thing for some people.
Again, by the way, I've gotten chills down my spine from people who've told me, "I'm constitutionally incapable fo change. I can't go back to those meetings, I just can't."
Straight out of the AA credo, that line about "constitutionally incapable." Ditto the people who say they're "powerless" and have therefore given up. Yes, AA's defenders will say they're misinterpreting those words, but I say, maybe the real problem is they need to hear some different words. Let's not give them, or me, a hard time for seeking out alternatives if one approach isn't meeting their needs.
I ask my question again: is the goal to get people into AA, or is it to help them?
* Update * Dan, an alcoholic coming up on five years of sobriety, has a personal story.
Perhaps this is too personal a question, so I'll make it an obseration: I had no idea.
My father was an alcoholic, so I know what that means. I've known many in my life and can generally recognize one when I've seen one, but you, not a clue.
I'm constantly amazed, however, that many people view casual or regular drinking as alcoholism. As if that's some horrid thing.
For me, fortunately, it's never had any appeal. I have one of those bodies that doesn't take kindly to alcohol, so it never had much appeal. I'll have a drink about a dozen times a year. I didn't take my son out of public school soon enough because when I do order a glass of wine, or a drink before dinner, he goes into full Nanny-state apoplexy about the fact that I MIGHT be an alcoholic or get drunk. The attitude that is the great demon alcohol, the tempting elixer which defies the ability of human beings to control or conquer, is exactly why some people drink to excess. It's innate. It doesn't jump out of the bottle flow through someone's lips without their cooperation and consent. All of this reminds me of people who fear a gun, as if it has powers all its own. This demonization of alcohol is dangerous. It gives it some sort of mystical power that attracts people to it.
I tried OA several times when I was in my 20s and felt about it the way you appear to feel about AA. That is not to say that OA didn't work for some folks. It just wasn't for me, nor were any psychological or behavioral approaches. My problems weren't psychological or behavior--they were physical. I wouldn't be surprised if your attitudes about AA stem a little from their treatment of obesity as a "one problem to describe all" colors your opinion of them. You see, as you also know from Rosemary that obesity isn't a food or out-of-control binging type problem for all people. In can be for some, and for those folks a treatment approach to get control over the behavior is a great idea. For those of us who inherited bodies who prefer to be fat, no matter what we eat, it's just silliness (and I have the surgery scars to prove it).
So, not that it matters, but you could have fooled me!
If you keep doing all this research, you may just come up with your own program. But you have to promise me that you'll call it "Dean's 1-step Program" :-)
But seriously, people need to start grasping the concept of "constructive criticism." You aren't trying to convince people that they shouldn't seek help at all... merely stating that you think there might be better ways of getting help, for some people.
I don't know a single person for whom AA has worked, and I know two people who have quit without it. That's not to say that it doesn't work for anyone, just that it doesn't work for everyone, and it's not the only method that works. AA has somehow got a lot of people thinking that they have a monopoly on alcoholics, when in reality, it's no different than the weight loss program "market." Different things work for different people.
Mark J- I agree with Dean, even though I have been sober WITH the help of AA for over fifteen years. However, I would like to point out that you probably know plenty of people that are members of AA. As an anonymous group, many, if not most, prefer to stay that way. I am constantly meeting people that are in AA. They only out themselves in confidence when they sense that I am in recovery also.
Dean - Keep up the good work, no matter how you do it, just stay sober! The rest will follow.
I think you raise valid point in your "AA Alternatives".
AA has worked for me, but I agree it is not for everyone, and that not everyone that shows up in an AA meeting belongs there. When I came to AA, some old guys encouraged me to go try whatever other options I thought I had, and if that didn't work then AA would still be there. I encourage others to do the same. You can't help an alcoholic get sober if they think they have other viable alternatives.
The program itself claims to a program of "attraction rather than promotion", which to me says you can gracefully take the criticism of those who choose not to participate. I don't know why so many members take issue with criticism or alternatives, it doesn't make the program any less valid.
Thanks again for intelligent debate on the topic. Best of luck to you as well.
Apologies for the bogus e-mail, but I prefer to remain Anonymous. :)
Dean, I've never been to AA and don't believe I'm an alcoholic so take my commentary with a grain of salt. I've read through some literature on AA and it sounded eerily close to the religious camps that I was subject to in my youth. Any comments?
I'm not personally familiar with AA - but I do attend a 12 step program for family members whose loved one has a different addiction. Within this organization, I know that each group has its own dynamics and one can vary quite a lot from another.
In my group, we're very much believers of the motto "take what works for you." Our goal isn't to bully someone into buying some liturgic 12 steps, but to make life work for those living with an addicted person. Ditto for the addicts in the meeting next door.
I'm sorry that so many of you aren't able to benefit from a group like mine. If something else helps you make the trip from alcholism to sobriety - go for it!
Pragmatism is the ultimate guide for me with all this. Whatever you find that works - do it. But do something. Serious addictions (alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc.) can ruin your life - or end it.
And, please - Dean, somehow try to let those people who are writing to you that they have given up to NOT do so! No matter how horrific your life has become, change and improvement is possible.
I've attended two family weeks of education and enlightenment at Hazelden in MN. People who you think long ago should have been dead somehow found the way to a good life again.
Those of you who think it cannot happen to you, think again. As long as you are alive - there is hope. Do not give up!!
As Dean said, honesty is the key. AA, at its best, involves people confronting you with rationalizations and thought distortions common to many alcoholics. At its best, it also offers a support system many alcoholics lack when they decide to get sober.
In my case, AA enabled to push the responsibility for getting sober onto AA, and this was a big relief because I had no faith whatsoever in my own ability to get sober. In fact, I was positive I could never stop. What AA said was essentially -- you can get sober. Don't worry about how. Just do the following stuff: go to meetings, share at meetings, get honest with yourself ... also, get a sponsor (be careful about this one).
As scary and cultish as that sounds, it enabled me to let go of "quitting drinking" and just do what people said. And it worked for me.
But I've said that before. My own criticism with AA doesn't concern AA so much as an entire industry, complete with complicit schools, courts, insurance and rehabs, all designed to shove people into AA whether they belong there or not. I see so many kids who are just kids -- nobody bothered to raise them, nobody gave them clear boundaries, nobody bothered to give them decent values -- and when they get out of hand, they're declared addicts and shoved into AA. For the first time, they're getting real attention and someone is trying to raise them. But many of them are not alcoholics or addicts ... and thus burden AA by raising kids.
The rehab-insurance-courts thing is a borderline scam. I know some folks are helped by rehabs, but many folks go into one rehab after another. My objection is especially to young kids being shoved through the system.
And as Mrs. DuToit points out, the public schools are insane on this issue. We may have had a decline in religion in this country, but we haven't had a corresponding decline in puritanism. Sheesh. Have a glass of wine before dinner ... that's Paul's advice for Timothy. If they'd had tobacco back then, he probably would've said, Have an after-dinner cigar.
The goal of modern society seems to be to create perfectly, utterly joyless lives. I'm not saying every night you should deep-fry a chicken-battered prime rib and wash it down with 12 bottles of Samuel Smith's Pale Ale, but moderation means moderation.
Anyway, I'm a bit far afield on this Monday morning rant.
penultimate graph: that's "perfectly safe, utterly joyless"
"is the goal to get people into AA, or is it to help them?"
My own experience is that I just got gentle encouragement to "keep coming back".
I can't say how AA is in other places, but here the "Big Book Nazis"are a small minority. Newly sober members may get a bit evangelical, but most of us are pretty laid back.
"Can't" is the only four-letter word I ever got smacked for using.
Hey Dean,
As someone that has been extensively been invloved with AA (my business deals with the recover industry), I will unconditionally agree that AA is not for everyone & that there are other options that work. I have been sober 19 years as of March 19 - and while I did expereince AA, it wasn't the tool for my sobriety.
Hang in there - you have a great accountability network set up. It is also good to see someone researching and sharing some of the options.
As I've said before, you ever need to just talk with someone - let me know.
To answer the question: The goal is to help other alchoholics achieve recovery by whatever works.
What.. was it a trick question? ;]
My best friend from grade school beat alcoholism via AA. Having said that, and speaking as a person who might have two or three drinks every quarter, and who gave away more wine last year than I drank, I have always found the maxim "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" to be offensive. Isn't the point to overcome the obstacle, not deify it. Habits can be changed and beaten. AA is proof of that, but cling to the idea that even those who have been sober for 20 years are still alcoholics. Even if someone has a genetic weakness for abusing alcohol, if they recognize it, and control it, then how are they alcoholics? Isn't the point self-control. However that self-control is maintained, whether by moderation, or complete abstinence, in my mind, if self-control is maintained, then the person ceases to be an alcoholic. Where is the Redemption?
Scott, I'm an alcoholic, have been since about '90 or so, I'd guess. Quit almost 5 years ago. You may be right that an alcoholic can go back to drinking and not be an alcoholic, but I've known a lot of alkies and I never met one that was able to.
But the redemption is in laying down to sleep at night and knowing you didn't drink that day. I rarely ever even think of it anymore, but when I do it feels really good. And why take the chance? What is so wonderful about alcohol that it's worth taking even a LONGSHOT chance that you'll go back to the thing that was destroying your life?
Kim Mitchell had it right: Might as well go for a soda, nobody hurts and nobody cries.
$.02
My former partner of 2 years and best friend of 7 lost his battle with alcoholism at age 44.
He had worked the 12 Steps for more than a decade. For much of that time, his pattern was remarkably stable: 6-8 week periods of sobriety and meetings, a 36-72 hour binge, a week getting back to somewhat normal, and start over again.
Some of the care he got wasn't specifically A.A. oriented, but none of it fell far from the 12-step tree.
When the disease model is to be used to describe alcoholism, this is one places where it's often not followed very well. When diabetes routinely careens out of control, or a cancerous tumor doesn't respond to chemotherapy, or depression escalates despite drug therapy, the health care pros dig through the most current research to find alternate treatment approaches.
But, in Brian's case, more than a decade was spent doing the same old thing in response to the same old problems, getting the same old results.
Every time he came out of a binge, it seemed to me that he and his caregivers lapsed into magical thinking: "Maybe this time, taking things one day at a time, the spiritual fix will take root and there won't be another binge."
He and I agreed that abstinence was the only goal worth pursuing for him. I suggested that Harm Reduction Therapy might help him take a different tack -- reducing the frequency and severity of binges -- and bridge him to longer-term abstinence. I won't forget his response:
A month later he was dead, head injury due to a fall during a binge.
He'd had a number of close calls in his last year, so it's not like an easy solution was at hand that necessarily would have fixed it.
Alcohol-related care ought to be medical care, based on well-established research (there's lots of it), which includes allowing folks to choose the course of their care from available options which fit them. As health care consumers, we expect that and generally get it with other long-term diseases like diabetes and depression. It's much tougher to come by related to alcohol, though.
A.A. is one approach, and it's worked for millions. That's terrific.
But it's far from the only workable approach, and its care is seldom provided by or directly supervised by professionals with their finger on the pulse of the best research.
You're doing great work, Dean, getting your health care needs met and taking responsibility for improving your health!
Mike Van Winkle (and anyone else suffering under the same delusion) - While AA may not be for ewveryone who believes he or she is a drunk, it is most definitely NOT a cult. After fifteen years I have not given my life, life savings and property over to AA, nor do I know any member who has. In fact, every member I know that has followed the twelve step program as long as I have has actually naturally tapered off AA involvement with the ensuing years as their sober life became fuller and richer. So can we please stop the ridiculous comparisons once and for all? Especially if you know not whereof you speak. Yep, that's why it says "ass," because sometimes, you have to be.
Dean:
Ironbear beat me to it. The only thing that really matters is results. Does it work for you??
It seems to me that the AA is afraid to mess up something that does work for some (a lot??) people, and they (AA leaders) are afraid to change something that works, at least from their limited perspective?
I hope you keep posting about this subject. Not only will it help you, but it may save someone else.
A friend of mine is alcoholic, and he's been reading this book that draws the distinction between alcohol dependence and alcoholism - it's this theory that alcoholics have a different physiological makeup to non-alcoholics - their bodies process alcohol differently. My friend says that he seems to get a *much* bigger buzz from drinking than any of his friends do - for him it seems more like being addicted to heroin or something.
Ah, for once I can find my sources - this is the book.
Dean, what do you think of that theory? I guess if there's some truth in it that it might also make a difference to the type of programme that different people should try.
I think there is almost no doubt that some people have a physical reaction to alcohol that is much stronger than other people's. The intensity of pleasure they feel when using, and the intensity of discomfort they feel upon withdrawal, is abnormally high. Add psychological dependency issues and the ingrained nature of habit, and it gets weirder and weirder. Soon you dont' even know what to do with yourself when you're not drinking.
It all feeds on itself. But I have no doubt--none at all--that there is a physical factor, or rather several physical factors, that leave some of us more vulnerable to this than others.
Dean,
You and I had a brief, if not so successful (my fault, not yours) email exchange awhile back, but I think a couple of the points I made then applies here.
For many drunks, A.A. is not the first place they go, it's the LAST place they go after they've tried everything else. Or they come to A.A. and it works for them so they stick around.
You've made me re-evaluate my attitudes toward non 12-Step Recovery and in looking at it, I feel stronger than ever about the following:
I think that a LOT of the 12-Steppers lashing out at non 12-Step Recovery has to do with the fact that we honestly WANT to help the alcoholic who still suffers, but since we don't understand the other methods, or they didn't work for us when we tried them, there's not a lot we can do to help in that situation. That's real frustrating because in a lot of ways, you're right. We feel like we're the last and best chance for an alcoholic to recover. I think that a LOT of folks in A.A. forget the "last chance" part. We forget that we tried a LOT of different ways to get sober or regain control before we found A.A. and that if any of those had worked, we sure as hell wouldn't have gone to A.A. in the first place.
Does that make any sense or did I make it worse?
Yeah, AA is supposed to be the Last Stop. That's the point. If you can stop without AA, you don't need AA. I know it's tautological, but AA is for people who need AA.
I've been around AA for over 30 years and in and out of the Bar Business longer. My last drink was 24 years and 11 months ago today. It wouldn't have been possible without AA. HOWEVER, I agree, AA is not for everyone. Just don't drink if it causes you problems or you can't live with the problems it causes. Negative reactions from members of the fellowship come from a lack of understanding of the 12 Step Program of Recovery and the 12 Traditions of AA. These arguments have gone all for years. I can only share with you my experience. I was led to a strong, pleasant and comfortable sober life by working the 12 Step Program of Alcoholics Anonymous as revealed to me by the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. I tried many different things first but in the end only AA worked for me.
I know plenty of people who have done it other ways and I want nothing that they have. I also am in contact with many who have returned to moderate drinking and I can't say they have anything I want either.
AA is so much bigger than any of us that I doubt that anything you or anyone else can say or write will damage anyone's chance for sobriety. If someone is going to drink a well reasoned argument with neither start or stop them. Alcoholism runs much deeper than that.
It has never been what you know that gets you in trouble, it has always been what you think you know.
I do not consider myself qualified to evaluate other methods of attaining sobriety. AA has worked for me since August 25, 1985.
I'm real big on that slogan 'what works for me might not work for you'. I do add the caveat that very few people are the first in anything. If what works for me doesn't work for you, try what works for somebody else.
I haven't paid a lot of attention to this site since I've been busy taking care of my wife after her shoulder surgery but I'm damned glad to see Dean still sober.
Dean you should be having your series of drunk dreams soon, if they aren't already happening. When they come, don't worry, they're another normal and predictable part of Recovery.
Hang in there.