The scales are falling from your eyes, Dean. :)

I've never been impressed with Kos; I reached your conclusion a long time ago.

My favorite quote was Allen's remark "Excuse my being really horrible, but..."

'Nuff said.

Up With Beauty!

The modern Republican woman? President Bush WILL have them! Lots and lots of them, and lots more where they came from. At this rate, he's going to win. I don't blame anybody for voting for him, even if I won't be able to.

This Rev. Brill is a cad, a misogynist "feminist" if I ever heard of one. He's the diametrical opposite of you, Dean (HAIL TO THE KING....!!!!). You're a man who loves, honors, and respects women more than any man I've known (_including_ when you defend men's rights against today's misandrists), and that's one of the main reasons I read you. You deserve the Queen. No wonder she loves you.

I don't like the Christian Left ("Right Christians", National Council of Churches, etc.) much more than I do the mis-leaders (Falwell, Robertson, etc.) of the Christian Right. I don't think either group actually speaks for the majority of Christians in America. In fact, there being thousands of sects and interpretations of Christ, no generalizations, or very few, can be made at all about Christians as such.

There ARE women who don't really dig makeup and shopping????!!!!!

I suppose he wouldn't mind Bush having all the men who like beer and TV, huh?

Looks like a really close election.

Dean- what a lovely white horse you ride...I am adding you to the list of truly chivalrous blogging knights out there...

P.S. Love the site (such calming colors), too. Adding to blogroll ASAND (as soon as nails dry).

You're doing it again Dean! Just for fun I searched for 'Kerry' on the two pages you linked expecting a mention of Kerry's attitude to women, since you did state that he views certain people with contempt and does not want their vote. And guess what, nothing at one, and the first mention of Kerry is in a comment by.... Dean Esmay in the other!!

Deeply, deeply worrying, Dean. Like a nervous tic or something where any time a Kerry supporter does something bad, its evidence that Kerry, the Democratic party and people who vote Democratic are also bad.

Blog for Bush, indeed.

Max, get a new tune. That one's gettin' reeeeel old.

"Dean, that's really partisan."

"Gee, Dean, that's just RNC boilerplate."

"Dean, how long have you been an apologist for Bush?"

"Lemme go google until I can find something that I can agree with."

Well Casey ya know someone's gotta keep the guy honest :-)

jack kennedy was NOT a liberal.

and he would most likely have supported bush's war on terrorism and iraq -- since kennedy insisted on retaliating against both the soviet union and cuba over the missile crisis which occurred shortly after he took office.... i remember it vividly.

humorously, he was referred to as a 'hawk' by the republicans of the time. and as a 'war monger' by the liberals of that period.

can you imagine cuba with missiles?

Like Rae, my wee wifey, who is more Republican and more pro-gun than I am, shops for shoes. She wears a 5-1/2 wide, earns her living on her feet, and is overdue for a knee replacement. Democrats who truly care about the working class should be supportive of her shoe shopping.

When she was a union carpenter, she always put on makeup before going to work. Except if she had called in sick the day before.

I remember not too long ago amusedly reading about campus political groups. In the article, which I can no longer find, there was general agreement that the Republican groups definitely had more babes.

Now you can look at this as being due to the fact that Republicans are supposed to be more "traditional", which, to a radical feminist, would mean that they are sweet, subservient and wear makeup and dress nicely to please the guys. In my opinion, one could not be more wrong about that.

For women, power-dressing involves skirts, makeup and heels. It just does. I wouldn't be caught dead at a high-powered meeting wearing a pair of pants. I learned early on, in a male-dominated profession, that looking like a real woman was a distinct advantage. I think that some of the LLL crowd are stuck in the 60's in more ways than one.

Now I'm not saying let's all run out and dress like Dolly Parton and wear makeup like Tammy Faye Baker- that's what's known as "hyperfeminism" , not self-confidence. I'm thinking more along the lines of the prosecting attorneys on "Law and Order."

Having said all that, I must admit that I hate to shop. Absolutely could not think of a bigger waste of time. In fact, I remember saying that to my sister one day while seated in a coffee shop in the Stanford Mall. This caused the barista to erupt into peals of laughter. He said he'd never heard a woman say that before- but I should think not, considering he works in the shopping Mecca, for Pete's sake!

Whoa, I thought this was an early April Fool's joke. Black on gray? I guess I'll read it as soon as my eyes recover from the chlorine in the health-club pool. Right now it's just too much of a strain.

Seriously, nice site. Hard to read, but nice.

Dani:
"I remember not too long ago amusedly reading about campus political groups. In the article, which I can no longer find, there was general agreement that the Republican groups definitely had more babes."

I've heard that observation a number of times. Hmmm....

This selfish aesthete and spectrumologist would love nothing better than to do a study of women to find out who have the greatest number of attractive women: those women who place themselves to the left of the center? or those women who place themselves to the right of the center? on a Left-Right ideological spectrum. Also, those women who refuse to place themselves at all on such a 1-dimensional spectrum, preferring a 2-dimensional or 3-dimensional spectrum?

Or, in addition, use the question Silvan Tomkins asked to define his spectrum of the Left vs. the Right [female nouns and pronouns mine]:

"Is Man [Woman] the measure, an end in himself [herself], a active, creative, thinking, desiring, loving force in nature (Left)?
"Or must Man [Woman] realize himself [herself], attain his [her] full stature, only through struggle toward, participation in, conformity to, a norm, a measure, an ideal essence basically independent of Man [Woman] (Right)?"

Should I worry that the Dems are going to come up with a plan to redistribute beauty next?

It's easy for us Republican chicks to be more babelicious than thou when one washes one's hair, wears make-up and shaves one's armpits. Smiling occasionally helps too.

Steven, I think Tomkins is incorrect in his neat classification- furthermore he doesn't even attempt to hide which viewpoint he considers to be the best. Rosseau to the left, Hobbes to the right.

Indeed, there are plenty of people who would believe that the left requires a great deal of unhealthy conformity to a norm. This is, of course, what Dean has been quite rightfully trying to point out and why he's increasingly disenchanted with the Dems. I personally don't mind attempting a little superficial conformity if I'm still allowed to think for myself.

Juliette,

LOL!!! Oh my that is hilarious. And it's true.

There are those who would say that Juliette overcorrects on the shaving thing, but as near as I can tell the results are striking.

Incidently, regarding superficial conformity, it should be noted that I have elbow-length hair, a full beard, am currently planning on a second ear pierce, in the conch, and this morning was seriously tempted to violate my employer's dress code by wearing a necktie.

triticale: Ha ha!

"There ARE women who don't really dig makeup and shopping????!!!!!"

*raises hand*

I hate shopping. Hate it hate it hate it. I hate it for one simple reason: I have a non-standard body type, particularly around the hips. Lately I have been (desperately) attempting to find new jeans and shorts -- I accidentally destroyed the zipper on pair o' shorts #3, #2 is aging and needs replacement, and I can't wear #1 all the time. Which brings me to my problem, namely that people ask me why I'm wearing such high-waisted pants, and I have to reply, "Actually, this is the below-the-waist style."

So you'd think that the low waist versions would be perfect, right? Well... actually, they're designed to rest on the hips, so although they're the right height, that's actually my waist, so there's about six inches of fabric too much at that point, far too much to belt in.

We won't get into the problem with women's "sizes." People ask what size I am, and I have to tell them that it depends on the garment involved, and oh yeah, it needs to be extra long as well. (I actually look pretty normal, just tall and moderately curved, but finding things that don't look off or outgrown is severely challenging.)

So why do I hate shopping? Mainly because there's thousands of garments out there, and NONE that fit me... so I go out on a mission and come back with zilch. Except frustration.

And I'm not too big on makeup either, but I've got dark hair and fair skin so I'm usually okay without.

*cough* I second the comment about shoes, however. If you're on your feet all day, the proper shoes are essential. Now if only they had a decent selection in the larger sizes...

...which reminds me. If you are a woman, or know a woman, who needs dressy shoes that are comfortable and can be used for all-day, on-your-feet action, check out dance stores. I have a particular love for "character shoes", those basic generic pumps with a strap that seem kind of retro. They're extremely comfortable - used by dancers on stage the world over - and not too pricey, running up to $50 or thereabouts for leather. (I once got a pair on sale for $5. Stupid me, I didn't pick up a second.)

Well, I rarely wear makeup because I'd rather sleep the extra 15 minutes it would take to put it on. (Plus it makes my skin break out.) I haven't worn heels in years. (I've done enough time in heels, thankyouverymuch. If there is such a thing as Purgatory, I hope God will reduce my time there by considering all the time I spent wearing heels.) And I really hate shopping. I like to know what I want ahead of time, get it and get through as fast as possible.

However, I'm not some unkempt radical feminist. I get my hair done, get manicures and wear nail polish most of the time. I think my conservative Republican credentials are solid. ;-)

Dani:

Thank you for your feedback on Tomkin's spectrum. He actually thought of Plato as representative of the Right. And, on his spectrum, Ayn Rand would be on the Left (a "man-worshipper").

It ties in with Thomas Sowell's polarity of "unconstrained" vs. "constrained" visions of human nature and society, as outlined in his "A Conflict of Visions".

The working definitions of Left and Right that I use the most are from J. A. Laponce: Left as the side of the horizontal, of secularism, of equality, and of discontinuity vs. Right as the side of the vertical, of religion, of hierarchies, and of continuity. But that's only one dimension. I find I need 2-dimensional and 3-dimensional spectrums.

Anyway, back to the main topic of this thread: Up With Beauty!

Max, you obviously missed my sarcasm toward what Reve. Brill was saying. I didn't actually accuse Kerry of feeling that way, merely one of his supporters as suggesting that Kerry should feel that way.

There is a condescension to so much of the left these days it's breathtaking--and it hits so many areas it's not even funny.

Steven Malcolm Anderson, there arej people with parts from both sides of that one dimension.

John Calvin was by this dimension on the right save for one element: continuity.

There are some who believe in the continuity of the 'right', with neither the religion of the 'right' nor the secularism of the 'left' because they simply believe that the state has a role in only temporal matters, who do not believe in simply a choice between the horizontal and the heirarchical, and who believes that we all have equality in liberty, and not the state making everyone's end result equal.

Even on this one dimension, neither of these two seem to fit, do they?

That first sentence is "there are". Ignore the "j".

B. Durbin- That's why I don't like shopping either. Nothing fits. I have become a real Ebay aficionado for that reason- I can sit on my butt in the comfort of my own home and when I find something I like, I can get measurements on it, find out if it has extra length to let down, etc. etc.

The other thing is to find yourself a good tailor. It's worth it and it isn't that expensive. I broke down and went shopping the other day (only because I had the store catalog and knew exactly what I wanted!), and found a great blazer. I took it directly to the seamstress and she let the sleeves down for $15. I don't have a huge closet full of clothes, but what's in there is nice stuff that fits.

Man, it's hell being a woman, ain't it?

Libertarian:
"That first sentence is "there are". Ignore the "j"."

Don't apologize for your typos! If I got paid a penny for every one of _my_ typos I'd be rich! Anyway, excellent spectrumological points you make. I love this thread, these spectrumological speculations in the middle of a discussion about women's shopping. I feel like I'm at the Crossroads mall here in Bellevue sipping a mocha while reading a good book. Spectrums, spectrums, spectrums, spectrums.... I love spectrums. Spectrums I do love. Both ideological spectrums and color spectrums.... The only thing more beautiful to me than a spectrum is a beautiful woman.

Dani:
"Indeed, there are plenty of people who would believe that the left requires a great deal of unhealthy conformity to a norm. This is, of course, what Dean has been quite rightfully trying to point out and why he's increasingly disenchanted with the Dems. I personally don't mind attempting a little superficial conformity if I'm still allowed to think for myself."

I absolutely agree, and that's why I'm not a Leftist. I should mention that Tomkins wrote his essay back in 1957, when the liberal Left stood more for civil liberties and academic freedom than they do today.

As to superficial conformity, I've long observed that the most independent, original thinkers tend to dress in a more-or-less conventional manner (e.g., suits and ties for men), while the people (mostly kids) who go out of their way to look weird tend to be the most conformist in their thinking, to their peers if not to their parents.

Kacie asked:
"Should I worry that the Dems are going to come up with a plan to redistribute beauty next?"

Indeed. The radical Left (defined as egalitarianism) has gone from demands for equal distribution of wealth (or poverty) to attacks on inequality of intelligence (e.g., the attacks on IQ tests) and to attacks on beauty, since beauty is inherently individualist and elitist. Witness the attacks on "looksism". I've concluded that much of contemporary "feminism" is really not so much a revolt of women against men but of ugly women against beautiful women. They say they are protecting the beautiful ones from being "exploited" by the evil "male gaze", but, obviously, they are envious of their beauty.

Shortly after World War II, an English Conservative wrote a novel entitled "Facial Justice", depicting a future "Utopia" in which women were forced to undergo plastic surgery so they would all be equally ugly. In Kurt Vonnegut's novel "E. Harrison Bergeron", all Americans are systematically made equally ugly, stupid, and weak.

I say: Down With Equality! Up With Beauty!

(I'm afraid to say that that biases my proposed survey because, if Left is defined as equality, then of course more ugly women are going to be found on the Left and more beautiful women on the Right. Still, there's Susan Faludi...)

Dani again:
"Now I'm not saying let's all run out and dress like Dolly Parton and wear makeup like Tammy Faye Baker- that's what's known as "hyperfeminism" , not self-confidence. I'm thinking more along the lines of the prosecting attorneys on "Law and Order.""

Very good! I know that I'm not exactly doing the cosmetics industry any favors by saying this, but, just speaking from my own point of view as a gynosexual man, I don't like to see too much makeup on a woman. If she has a beautiful face, she doesn't need it, and if she doesn't it's not going to do much good to my eyes. A little bit enhances the beauty that's already there, but the beauty is there already. A beautiful face is rarer than diamonds, and a million times more precious. Up With Beauty!

As to "inner beauty", which always comes up in these discussions, I will say only that inner or spiritual beauty is manifested, not always in possessing physical beauty, but always in appreciating, loving, valuing physical beauty (colors, shapes, good music) wherever it appears. Your "inner Savonarola" is not beautiful.

Bellevue in which state?

Bellevue, Washington! Washington (not the Death Star!), where I was born, and where most of my relatives have always lived (on my mother's side the Seattle area, on my father's side the Olympic peninsula). California (the Bay Area), where I lived for over a decade. Oregon (the Willamette valley), where I grew up and lived most of my life -- Oregon, my Oregon. A state with a great tradition of individual freedom, including free speech and the right to keep and bear arms.

Yes, I love the West Coast. I'm as loyal to the West Coast as Southerners are to Dixie, as New Englanders are to New England, as Michiganders are to Michigan and the Great Lakes. Some people back east call us the "Left Coast", but we have our share of conservatives, including a good number of Birchers I have known, and many libertarians, Objectivists, and Asatruars. I'll take my stand here in the land where the sun sets over the Pacific.

Dean: No.

Make-up: I hardly ever wore it until a couple of years ago as I was nearing 40. I was getting a little long in the tooth to go barefaced on a date or to a professional outing. No wrinkles; just the the discolorations, etc. of aging skin. *shrug* Goes with the territory.

The thing that I find most interesting in all of this, is that Allen has actually created an alter blogging ego. I blogged how many times about make-up? Shopping? Clothes? I think I may be more accurately accused of blogging about parenting and my own pathologies/vices than the other fun, puzzling superficialities of this life.

I, too, like my sleep, but when I do make-up and step out, I do it well (please excuse the snapping sound of my shoulder popping out of joint from slapping my own back). I also reject the idea that beauty doesn't matter. I think our energies should be balanced-the internal weighing only slightly more than the external and both being quite heavy. I recently got a friend out of her grandmother's bra, baggy sweaters, and pants at her request. She came to me to help her. She had discovered her internal intrinsic value and wanted it to show externally. It wasn't enough to know she was pretty inside, she wanted the world to see it and know it. No matter what the argument, we all notice a person physically first nine times out of ten (this displacing the instances when we see someone we do not know doing a good deed). The next time I saw her, she positively glowed. She felt good inside and out.

I have other clothing "issues"- being a size 8 in the chest and a size 6 in the waist and hips. "A big bossomed lady" with or without a Dutch accent needs to start thinking of the beautiful variations in the female bodies out there.

Allen's personal attack was most disappointing and only furthered stereotypes of both Democrat and Republican women.

P.S. I know that Kennedy was a "different" kind of Democrat than today's version, but he is enthusiastically claimed as their founding father, so I was politely trying to point the readers to another president has lead us into a war to which many people disagreed.

P.S.S. Unmade up, barefoot, and in sweats heading upstairs to eat dinner together as a family, so no time to edit.

(giggle)Sorry, I just realized that it sounded like I "literally" helped her out of her clothes, so I thought the true intention (helping her choose different clothing to wear) needed to be clarified.

Also, Steve Malcolm Anderson- just realized that you and I totally agree on the whole inner beauty-external beauty issue....