I think this would be where we mention that we shouldn't have had all of our educational eggs in the governmental basket to begin with.

The last year Latin was taught at my high school was the year before I entered high school. I remember I was quite disappointed. I've studied several languages since (including Koine Greek but not classical Greek) and have informally picked up a smattering of Latin vocabulary and grammar, but never really got to immerse myself in Latin.

Latin and Greek are part of the heritage of Western civilization. Of course, in some minds I suppose that's precisely the reason why classical language studies have to go.

Honestly, the two latin courses I took were a complete waste of time.

As a book collector, I noted a few years ago that as Latin had been the language of the educated classes of the Western World for 2000 years, books written in that language were plentiful...and since most folks could not read them, cheap.
I have been slowly educating myself in Latin ever since and can now make my way through simpler volumes. It's a wonderful experience.
Count on the New Education Mafia to dispose of Latin in favor of lord knows what--probably Underwater Basket Weaving, "Hating Whitey 101" or Title IX Competitive Frisbee.

I'm one of those freaks that believes at least one semester of Latin should be a requirement for high school graduation. The Latin classes I took have helped me dramatically with regard to other languages. I was able to pick up French and Spanish much easier because of the shared Latin base. Latin has helped improve my English vocabulary and spelling, as well.

It's all in where your interests lie, I suppose.

Latin and Greek are part of the heritage of Western civilization. Of course, in some minds I suppose that's precisely the reason why classical language studies have to go.

Dear Lord, this culture of victimhood has to go, this paranoid vision of the looming goblins of small minded liberalism in every shadowy crevics. If latin classes were increasing you'd bemoan the elitest liberals who waste the kids times with useless dead languages out of high minded pretentiosness.

Max:

If latin classes were increasing you'd bemoan the elitest liberals who waste the kids times with useless dead languages out of high minded pretentiosness.

No, I wouldn't.

And "liberal"? "Liberalism"? You used those words, not I.

I admire those— liberal, conservative, whatever— who strive to uphold what is fine. Including, yes, Latin and Greek and other things that are part of the heritage of Western civilization.

I detest those— liberal, conservative, whatever— who would neglect or trash what is fine. Including Latin and Greek and other things that are part of the heritage, et cetera.

"Liberal"? "Liberalism"? "Paranoid vision of the looming goblins"? Your hang-up, not mine.

ok Paul, understood. I detected an agenda behind 'heritage of Western civilization...why it has to go', but if you say not...

I will always be grateful I took Latin all 4 years in high school.

Max:

Thanks for your gracious response.

In the interests of full self-disclosure, I've always considered myself some species of political conservative. Though people sometimes take me for a moderate liberal, which is fine with me, too.

When Latin was dropped at my high school, right before I would have had a chance to take it, I suspect most of the townspeople would have taken just about precisely the attitude that Latin class was "wast[ing] the kids times with useless dead languages out of high minded pretentiosness." In fact, I remember getting in an argument with my English teacher, my sophomore year in high school, in which she took almost precisely that attitude regarding Latin.

And I grew up in a culturally conservative small town in the American Midwest. There's much I appreciated about that kind of setting— I live today, by choice, in a culturally conservative rural area in the Midwest!— but one thing I didn't appreciate about my home town was the sour, curdled anti-intellectualism which hung so heavily in the atmosphere. When Latin was dropped in my high school, I suspect I was one of the few locals who regretted its passing.

Now, as for academic liberals, that's another story for another time. Let's just say I spent most of my time, from 1974 through 1991, in various college and university settings. I came away from those years valuing genuine tolerance and open-mindedness, whether these be found in liberals, conservatives, whatever— and despising those (liberal, conservative, whatever) who would neglect or tear down what is fine, especially those who would wreck the foundations of that ongoing conversation which has been at the heart of Western civilization's intellectual traditions for at least 2500 years.

We might have an extended conversation some time on the health of today's universities. But like I say, that's another story for another time.

Thanks once again for your gracious response.

I am taking Latin right now, in College. Well, I am in spring break, but still the point holds...

I won’t say that the Latin I have taken so far is useless: it is the single hardest thing I have ever done since (presumably) learning to read at age 2. Since it is so damned hard, I know it is useful. But other than being able to push my limits, I am not learning anything useful...

The problem comes from (I think) the available material. I can describe battles and whatnot-- tell you how to set fire to something-- but I have no clue how to say “how are you?” Quite frankly, If the students are getting more math and doing less Latin, that’s a fair tradeoff...

My brother the stonecarver knew that he would need to go to Italy to master his craft. He took Latin in high school because Italian was not offered. It proved to be the most valuable subject he took, especially once he got to Italy and discovered that the Milanese he had studied in college was nothing like the Versaliazi spoken in the marble hill country.

Of course this says nothing about Latin's value to anyone else...

Learning Latin was once part and parcel of the educational process because books were in Latin and educated people from foreign countries also spoke Latin. Latin wasn't a dead language, it was very much in use, and it served the same purpose that literacy and fluency in English serve today.

Today, Latin is your passport to reading certain historical texts; it's no longer your passport to reading or understanding anything current. And all of the historical texts that nonspecialists will encounter are available in English translation. Thus the actual importance of learning Latin has progressively decreased. It's great mental exercise, but it doesn't form the foundation of anything else you'll need.

I must point out that knowing Latin will help you immensely if you want to beat your spouse at NPR's "Whaddyaknow."

If we don't know from whence we came, how can we know where we going?

I had four years of Latin in high school and have continued reading it since then. By the time I completed my fourth year I understood English grammar, syntax and vocabulary far better that I might have. Also, having had Latin, learning romance languages and other foreign languages has been much easier.

From my standpoint, I would ask this:

Is the benefit of people learning Latin beneficial enough to society that society should pay for them to learn it?

I think people should study Latin, and that they should learn it, but I don't know that it provides enough value that it should be paid for by the government.

Latin's cool because if you learn Latin, it becomes easier to learn other languages, including German and French (which are far more similar than most people realize). While it isn't a relevant scholarly language anymore (English has taken over as the language of science), linguistically it's interesting, and I think that people who are interested in our linguistic history should study that, whether it's on the government's dime or their own.

John, forgive me - I'm lost on the German in regard to Latin. I see the relation to Romance languages - French, Italian, Spanish, Romanian, Portugese

As well, one of the main reasons Latin hung around for so long was the fact that mass in the Catholic church was celebrated in Latin. Vatican II pretty much spelled the death knell for latin education.

German and Latin aren't close evolutionarily, but German has borrowed a fair amount from Latin in the Christian era. Also, Latin and German aren't so far apart - consider the 1st person pronoun:
English, German, Latin
I, Ich, Ego (nominative)
Me, Mich, me (accusative)
Me, Mir, mihi (dative)
My, Mein, mei (genitive)

Clearly, English is closer to both than German is to Latin, but the common root is obvious. Learning Latin gives the added bonus of understanding where we got the English word "Ego".

Personally, I think Latin in high school raised my SAT verbal about 100 points. It makes reading technical stuff and literature easier, by clarifying the root meanings of a fair percentage of technical terms and obscure phrases/words in fiction. It wasn't "useful" in the monetary sense, but it was in the personal sense.

If the criteria is "value to society", I think the "value to society" is as much or more than high school art, music, home ec, PE, and any of the other languages other than Spanish. (who's contribution to society is based on their high-school French or German?) Certainly its social value is far higher than interscholastic sports. It isn't up there with the "big four" in social value, but as electives go, it is a good one.