Yesterday I attended my second Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. Writing about these things is a bit of a challenge because I have to be very careful. To maintain the promise of confidentiality, I will not tell you where I went, when I went there, or give you names or physical descriptions of people. I will even slightly alter a few details, perhaps switch some sexes around, just to be sure. But, with that caveat in mind, I would like to tell you a few things about what I observed, and how powerful some of it was.
I will also tell you why I won't be going back to AA any time soon, even though my respect for the program has increased tremendously.
Before I get to the second meeting, though, let me tell you about the first. That was a large, open public meeting, with perhaps 50-70 people present. It was rather loud, rather boisterous. Those who spoke had to speak quite loudly, and only those who were most interested in attention did speak. Several people were loudly and rather inspiringly recognized for achieving various levels of sobriety: one day, 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, one year, two years, four years. It was very moving to see all those success stories, and to hear about some shattered lives that were recovered.
On the other hand, there were things that disturbed me. One man spoke of his four years of sobriety, but then sobbingly told how life was still very much a wreck, and how he could barely get through his week without having at least 3-4 conversations with his "sponsor" (that is, a fellow alcoholic who acts as a mentor). Then there was the lady who had sixteen years of sobriety, and still despairingly spoke of the mess that was her life, and how she had recently chosen a new "sponsor." I was startled when she pointed out the new sponsor, a person barely out of her 20s, who had only recently confessed to being sober for about the last year.
(If you are not familiar with AA's 12 steps, you can view them here. Those steps form the core of the entire AA philosophy of treatment.)
I left that meeting convinced that AA was not for me. However, several people told me to keep trying, to try a different meeting at a different location if I didn't like that one. So I did.
That second meeting was with a fairly close-knit group. The meeting was closed, with only perhaps a dozen people around a small table. All knew each other well, and by coincidence I was the only stranger that day. They were, to a person, very welcoming, very generous, happy to see me. I felt immediately comfortable among them. The energy and vibrancy many of them radiated was almost healing.
Some of the stories they told were simply awe-inspiring:
* A woman who first began drinking when she was three years old, because her parents let her. As a toddler, she learned to drink in order to help her go to sleep at night while her parents were passed out in the living room.
* A parolee who was arrested for armed robbery and manslaughter while drunk, who before AA had not spent a day sober in well over a decade, had take to crime simply to feed his alcohol cravings once he could no longer hold down a steady job.
* A former homeless woman, all of 5 feet tall and perhaps 95 pounds, who used to start her evenings by downing five shots of Jack Daniels and two beers, one after the other, just to loosen up and begin partying, passing out each night having no idea how much she'd drunk. She wound up on the streets, then in jail, before finding AA.
* A man who started every day with half a fifth of vodka, went to work, drank at work, hit the bar for lunch and got plowed, left work and went straight back to the bar and stayed there until closing time, then went home, drank himself to sleep, and got up the next morning for work--and lived that way for over 10 years.
* A man who drank a fifth of vodka and a case of beer every single day, and only realized his need for help when, one afternoon, he bought two fifths of vodka, a case of beer, and, upon opening his first beer of the day, realized that he was worried that he did not have enough alcohol to make it through the evening.
* A woman who one day downed two fifths of vodka and 40 valiums and, upon waking up in the hospital, started screaming at the doctors furiously for daring to resuscitate her, because her life had become a living hell due to alcohol and she had wanted so badly simply to die.
* A man who stopped drinking when his doctors told him he would die of cirrhosis, then spent ten years as a pill addict until, one day, another addict stole a single pill from his lunchbox at work, and he found himself beating up the thief--and suddenly realized that he had nearly killed a man for stealing a codeine pill worth perhaps 25 cents.
All had more than a year of sobriety. A few more than a decade, and one more than 25 years. All were happier now than at any time in their lives. Many of them had steady jobs and decent homes for the first time. All credited AA for saving their lives and their sanity--or for helping them find sanity for the first time ever. Most of them had terrific senses of humor, too.
Almost all of them gave me their home phone numbers, spontaneously, urging me to call them any time, telling me to please come back and to keep coming back, telling me they hoped to see me tomorrow.
These were not people who hit rock bottom. They started at ground level, started digging, and didn't stop until they were halfway to the center of the Earth. Then each and every one of them somehow managed to claw his way back to the sunshine--some of them seeing it for the first time in their lives.
I will never be able to listen to someone snort contemptuously about 12-step programs or AA again without thinking of those people. By all rights, most of them should have been dead. They, more than anyone I've ever met, were truly Bill W.'s children.
I won't be going back. But I'll carry their memory or a long time. I don't belong with those folks, but the power and the grace of their lives and experiences will stay with me.
I need to ask those of you who urge me to keep going to AA to please do me a favor: stop. At least, stop for now. I have been reading about and experiencing 12 step programs, due to family alcoholism, for decades. I have the Big Book and have read the important parts. I have heard the stories, seen for myself the miracle that AA can work. I have also drawn a great deal of strength and inspiration from talking to, and exchanging email with, a number of fine, fine people with many years of experience in AA, who have given me countless insights and much positive affirmation.
Furthermore, many of you AA folks who've left me comments, even the ones I've argued with, have been a tremendous help. Yes, I said even those of you who I've argued with. Hell, especially the ones I've argued with.
But now I need you to accept that I am going to find my own path on this thing, that everything in my soul tells me that AA is not the path I need to go down. Please don't tell me I'm in denial--if I am, then I'll discover that in my own good time.
That doesn't mean we can't be friends though, and it doesn't mean I don't want your advice. I have been exchanging mail regularly with at least four AA veterans with more than a decade of sobriety each, a couple of you with multiple decades of it. Each and every one of you has been enormously helpful, and I hope you'll stick with me even though I'm choosing other methods for now.
The wisdom and experience and courage of all you AA folks is truly inspiring.
I know what worked for me. I want you to find what works for you. You may not even need A.A. ever better to recognize now than live in something that is unnecessary. Then again you might not be ready for it. It could go both ways.
Then again the earth could implode tomorrow or today, what time is it anyway?
You're absolutely right on all counts.
Also, by the way, last I checked the world ended at 00:01 on January 1, 2000. Weren't you there?
Dean - Bravo - Do whatever works for you. But don't drink.
Dean, thanks for the update. Keep on your path.
I'm with you Dean.
I quit alcohol and cigarettes six years ago when I broke up with a girlfriend.
I experienced the normal concerns that this meant I was an alcoholic, especially with family history.
I was just trying to get clean for a while and clear my head. AA members came from everywhere, all convinced that I was in denial.
My problem is I see AA as a crutch. A better crutch than alcohol, but a crutch nonetheless. Some people need it. Some people would die without it. Me - I needed to just stop being selfish and involve myself more in the lives of other people.
I drank out of boredom, to give myself common ground with the people I called friends. And my job was a joke.
When I was active, and involved, and surrounded by people I liked and respected, I didn't drink, or drank very moderately.
This is not to say the people around you are like the ones I was around. I'm just agreeing with you that AA is wonderful, but it's not for everyone.
Good for you, Dean. Keep up the good work. I agree with Yeti, that AA is nothing more than a substitute crutch. Certainly a FAR FAR less destructive one.
As I understand it, the standard 12 step program is very much tied to a religious spirituality, accepting a higher power and the notion that He is in control and you are powerless. Personally I think that is a bullshit approach to problem that essentially requires personal accountability to beat. You are NOT powerless, you are ALL powerful in controlling what you do, and where your life goes.
My father is an alcoholic, and like those people you met, he should be dead, many times over. The fact that our family is as functional as it is, is a credit to my mother, pure and simple. My father, somewhat like both you and I, is an atheist (or a bright if you prefer the term). To me, that is incompatible with a 12 step program, and I think you are well served by realizing early that it isn't for you.
The fact that so many AA folks would so vehemently suppor the program is all the proof you need that it is a similar crutch or addiction. Because THEY are in denial as to how much they NEED the program to stay on the right path. If it works for them, GREAT. But it doesn't and won't work for everyone. Lasting sobriety is a personal achievement. PERIOD.
take what you want and leave the rest.
you got that part down. Whatever works for you is what's going to work for you.
there is a 13th step- it's the one where you decide you're ready to get on with life once you've gotten what you can from the other 12 steps. ;)
My family owns a really beautiful rehab in upstate New York. Some wonderful things have come out of that place. I'm with you, for the most part, about AA, but i know that when it works, it works.
Dean ... THE important part is that you don't drink and that you do what you can to fix what is wrong in your life.
If the AA helps - then do that. If something else works better for you - then THAT is the way to go.
I'm a little distressed, however, by this negative references to "crutches." I don't know about the rest of you ... but sometimes I have a problem, be it physical, mental, spiritual - and I NEED a crutch! If you break your leg, is it better to stay home, immobile? Or use a CRUTCH?!
I'm in the "crutch" camp. Nothing wrong whatsoever with getting help if you need it. And it is wrong to demean those who need help. The dumb thing is to avoid getting help because you think of yourself as too "independent" or "powerful" for it.
Can crutches be abused? Sure. Sounds like some people in Dean's 1st AA group were making a mess of the entire process.
But if AA - or religion, for that matter - helps people live more productive, fulfilling and decent lives - then GO FOR IT! (And this is not a plug for religion. I'm an agnostic - and practice no religion at all.)
I hate when my browser don't reload. Missed this post this morning. I owe you an apology for being so rash.
The goal is sobriety and all that means. The way you get there is up to you.
I don't care how long anyone has been sober, life happens and sometimes it sucks. I don't have a problem today that drinking won't make worse.
Dean, you're off your rocker. The world isn't going to end until October 2004, when the NHL players get locked out.
One completely different argument regarding AA:
It is the largest functioning organization on the planet operating on libertarian principles, although they don't call it that.
Even on the God thing.
Fascinating stuff - thanks Dean. And like others have said, whatever works, man. AA is great for those who need it; but like John Nash in "A Beautiful Mind" you can instead talk yourself out of things that you used to talk yourself into. Attitude is everything.
Yeah, you tell 'em, Dean. You're smarter than they are, and you don't NEED AA to stop drinking. You're SPECIAL. Just because the program works for all those other people doesn't mean it'll do YOU any good. You're going to find your OWN way to lick your addiction.
You'll be back on the sauce by Memorial Day, pal. But good luck to you.
"In AA since 1987":
Attraction rather than promotion. He's not saying he wants to do it all on his own; he's saying he wants to try another program, some hypnotherapy and a therapist.
In AA, our job is to help those who come through the front door, not hassle people on their personal blogs about decisions they've made to try something else. My point is: What you are saying is an inappropriate thing to say to our host.
Hey, "in AA," why not post with your real name and address, you gutless little prick. It takes a big, big man to tear someone else down behind a 'nym.
Then again, if you did come clean, I wouldn't be able to put a hand on you.
Not because of the law or anything, but soley due to the other five dozen regulars here, who would cheerfully rip off your pointy little useless head just to shit in the hole, before I could.
You are a vile, disgusting worm; crawl back under your rock.
Between 40 and 70% of all problem drinkers--depending on whose research you look at and how you do the measuring--quit without significant participation in AA.
Want to see the references? I got 'em. (I don't do something like this halfway.)
I'll see you on Memorial Day, "in AA since 1987."
In AA
"Never talk down to another alcoholic."
And I'm well aware that I've made that mistake myself thank you very much.
This is exactly the type of crap that Dean's been talking about and struggling with. This attitude that it's our way or no way.
That may have been true 50 or even 20 years ago, but it's not the case any longer.
And I LOVE A.A., but it's this type of crap that has no basis in any of our literature that keeps folks who may be looking around for an answer from even considering coming back after hearing or reading a blast like that.
Way to go oldtimer. You really showed him patience and tolerance.
Actually, Dean, I'd like to see those studies out of curiosity.
Could you send the links or references or whatever you have to my e-mail? Thanks.
Sure. I can post some here for that matter.
The most frequently-cited source on this I've seen--it's in multiple books and web sites is this one:
"Correlates of Past-Year Status Among Treated and Untreated Persons with Former Alcohol Dependence: United States, 1992," by Deborah A. Dawson. Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research, Vol. 20, No. 4, June 1996, p. 773.)
It's an NIAAA study of 4,585 people diagnosed with alcoholism according to the DSM-IV definition (which is pretty clear). At two years out, 58% had received no formal treatment program of any type (AA or anything else) and had ceased all alcohol abuse. They decided they were out of control and needed to quit, and simply quit. (By the way, go ask weblogger Bill Quick the DailyPundit about this. He used to own a bar and drink a fifth of booze a day. He was told one day by his doctor that he had irreversible liver damage, quit drinking on the spot, and now has 2-3 single servings of alcohol per year, of the "occasional half-glass of wine at dinner" variety. Never set foot in a meeting.)
I can't locate an original copy of this NIAAA study, but would like to have one.
On the other hand, here's an interesting article from Science showing a long-term comparison of three different treatment programs, AA and two others, and it found that all of these programs increased the odds of successful recovery, but could find no significant difference whatsoever in each program's success rate:
Alcoholics Synonymous
They note one consistent pattern: most alcoholics appear to need 2-3 attempts, on average, in order to successfully kick the habit. It often seems like the last one they end in is the one they become convinced is the most effective program. Since AA is the biggest, it also happens to be the one they're most likely to end in.
Probably the most serious review of AA's real success rate that I've seen is here: How Effective Is AA?. It's not an attack piece on AA, but it's pretty tough on AA's claim to be the only thing that works, and notes that there is some (minor, unproven) evidence that AA actually increases the odds of out-of-control, extreme binges among its members who do relapse.
It's obviously a life-saving program. I've seen that with my own eyes. But like I say, I think conducting an honest inventory on the matter would be a healthy thing for AA veterans. What is the actual success rate? You know damn well that most people who walk into those meetings never come back. You see 'em once, twice, maybe a dozen times at most, then they disappear. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the majority of those folks wind up dying of the drink.
I must repeat, by the way, that I absolutely, positively, completely respect you guys, and I know you do good work.
Dean, I think this is absolutely refreshing. I respect those guys like you do that are real veterans of the AA program and know how the steps and traditions helped them.
They wanted help and were determinded to get that help and nothing was going to stop them, nothing. Looks and sounds like some of them went to several different meetings in different places as well.
This is outstanding that you are barking about an organization that has it's flaws like any outstanding organization out there, but this one makes a critical difference in it as it saves lives. So does the American Cancer Society and if there were big flaws in it, let me tell ya, people would be roaring louder than you Dean.
Same as the Arthritis Foundation, The Heart Association and any other health organization.
Difference here, big difference is that, each and every meeting and chapter and outlet so to speak is self supporting by passing the hat at a meeting. There are special buildings where passing the hat has paid the rent and each AA chapter has been able to employ usually a recovering AA or someone in AlAnon, or AlAteen.
Ahh..., a veteran would have to also help me here, the AA I believe is based out of New York and the speakers bureau may come from there as well, not sure.
This has really opened up some terrific conversations and some serious honesty has come out in the open.
We do need physical and mental crutches in life... period. If someone can't admit that you will just simply be welcome to...Walk on water.
Dean,
You have to do what you think is right. People should not push AA as the program does not work for those that do not want to try it.
What Sober in AA was saying, albeit in a terrible manner, was that maybe your method of dealing with this issue seems less then successful, and maybe you should try something else. However, he should have phrased the question so that you make that decision, not him. I understand that you want no more suggestions, and that you do not think that meetings are for you. However, if you do decide that you want to do ONE more, may I suggest a men's meeting. A smaller one.
As far as discussing the effectiveness of AA, that is very hard to judge. There are some other programs that seem to work okay, and there are plenty of people who stop by themselves completely or for a distinct period. Since AA does not keep membership records, it is impossible to say. All mye evidence is anecdotal, and I could go on for hours.
I wish you luck Dean, I really do. I have been in those dark days where I really had no idea what to do. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. I sat in the back of the room and hated the program and all those in it for a couple of years. Fortunately I had nowhere else to go.
Last thing. I could post my real name, but chose not too due to anonymity concerns. It's not that I want my name to be a secret, but that I want you to take my words at face value. Nothing more and nothing less.
Pril - Where I'm from, the Thirteenth Step is the one where you stake out and bag a newcomer, sexually speaking. Not a very nice practice. Fucks with newbies' heads.
Dean,
Your references above paint a discouraging picture indeed of AA as an effective method of dealing with alcohol addiction.
About all I can say is that my personal experience is completely different and/or that I, and all the people I know in the program are statistical anomalies. I suspect that dependency,of any kind is a tricky thing to study.
In just about 10 years of not drinking, I've met maybe three people who classed themselves as alcoholics who recovered on their own.
I heard early on that only a third of us in AA were likely to achieve lasting sobriety, this seems to be realistic.
My attitude toward the chronic repeaters was that at least they were not drinking all the time. Some of the most unlikely candidates have now got serious time.
Personally, I attended meetings sporadically for about ten years before I ran out of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same time and was finally ready for step one.
I'm looking forward to some other's comments on the references Dean cited. Aloha, Hunt
Hunt: if you look at where the current state of addiction treatment is, the main philosophy these days is what the treatment counselors call "harm reduction." If you can get a serious alcoholic to drink less, even if you can't get him to kick it, the benefits to his health are enormous. Periods of abstention punctuated by occasional falls off the wagon are healthier than sustained drinking. Getting someone to cut back from a case of beer a day to a 12-pack a day has significant benefit, and so on. That of course is anathema to the AA philosophy, but the interesting thing is that AA may wind up accomplishing exactly that in many cases--your farting around with AA for 10 years before you got serious probably still wound up with you drinking less, reconsidering now and then on those nights when you wanted to get blotto but decided to cut back, and so on unti you eventually coming around to the right solution for you.
If your only tool is a hammer, every problem will be viewed as a nail. That's a problem I have, In my over two decades of drinking too much I couldn't manage to stop. AA is the only tool I found that worked. That doesn't mean all research stopped eighteen and a half years ago. Much has been learned since then. It's very likely that there are new tools that work as well, or even better. I wouldn't know about them, I have no reason to look. My hammer works fine.
Anybody who thinks that recovery from addiction to alcohol is all about not drinking is foolish. If I'm miserable not drinking, to Hell with it. Recovery is 'okay, I'm not drinking, now what?'
Recovery is where you go from that post you made about ten days ago, that cry for help, to where you want to be. The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions are a map. A map, not THE map.
I can't judge your map, Dean, I don't know where you want to go and I know damned little of where you're starting from. What I do know is that feeling of hopelessness I saw in that post. I know that, whatever else happens in life, and it will happen, you never have to feel that way again. Choose your destination, Dean. Choose your map. If the bottle starts calling you, check your destination as well as your map. It will be best if you do that before the first drink. I know that I'm an alcoholic. I know I have lots of drunks left in me. I don't know how many sobering ups I have. Maybe none. How many sobering ups have you got left? Don't start unless you damn-well KNOW you can stop.
If your first map gets you where you want to go, great. If not, try another. As many as it takes.
The secret of recovery is that there is no secret. Just find the guy that's got what you want, then do what he did to get it.
I would like to apologize to the readers of this blog, and especially to Dean himself, for the tone and content of my remarks here yesterday. I was guilty of talking down to Dean, and I served neither him nor AA well by my words. What I said was both ignorant and mean, and I'd like to think that I am usually neither of these things.
It is possible for people to stop drinking by means other than AA. I have not seen it done myself, but then again I've also never seen the Taj Mahal, and yet I'm certain it exists. Perhaps Dean will find a way to overcome his addiction with the help of Rapid Recovery or some other means. I sincerely hope you do, Dean. I hope that today, tomorrow, Memorial Day, and every other day to come for the rest of your life finds you sane and sober.
Please accept my apology, and sincere best wishes to you and those you love.
I meant to say Rational Recovery, not Rapid Recovery, in the above post. Not only can I be ignorant and mean, I also forget to proofread things from time to time.
Old-timers around here have another name for the "13th" step -- they call it "cripple-fucking." By the time that most people get to AA (as opposed to preliminary drive-bys) they're pretty much at their wit's end, and the VERY LAST thing they need is some predatory man (or woman) preying on their trust.
There are two deterrents: AA has about as many secrets as a high school (i.e. none), and getting involved with someone who is off-the-wall emotionally is generally not a good idea.
Peter said-" Anybody who thinks that recovery from addiction to alcohol is all about not drinking is foolish. If I'm miserable not drinking, to Hell with it."
Right on! If I wasn't MUCH happier now I wouldn't bother.
I know this may be hard to believe for those who have never been alcoholic, but toward the end I was not drinking because I enjoyed it - I drank because I had too.
Aloha, Hunt
It seems to me you just weren't ready for A.A.When I came into AA, 18 years ago Sunday past, I was relieved that these people knew what I was talking about; didn't judge me to be a bad person; and had given me a simple solution to my greatest problem: don't drink, and you can't get drunk - d'oh!
Eventually, it would occur to me that if I couldn't see that simple solution for myself, then there was something wrong with me.
Was I prepared to change my life? No.
Was I prepared to live my life according to the 12 Steps? Hell,no! I tried to read the steps while I rode the bus to work (demolishing my car played a major role in my "seeing the light"), and my eyes would glaze over after a few pages.
I was prepared to believe that I had found the right place:
These people were happy they didn't drink, and so was I.
These people were glad their drinking careers were at an end, and so was I.
These people made me understand that if I "went back out," I would be lucky if I died right away.
If you don't believe these three things, you're not ready for Step One. If you don't 'do' Step One, forget about Steps Two through Twelve.
There's an important mantra that drives the people in AA: The person I was drank. The person I was will drink again. If I don't change the person I was, into the person I can be, I will drink again.
We'll save a seat for you.
in AA since '87: No sweat man.
Frank: I'm currently seeing a therapist with 15 years of sobriety who never did more than a handful of AA meetings herself before deciding it wasn't for her.
Go visit Bill Quick, the DailyPundit, and ask him how he kicked his fifth-of-whiskey-per-day habit without AA. Then go hit the Moderation Management mailing list and talk to all the AA refugees there about why they left and why they're happier and more in control onw.
I already did first step. Unless by first step you mean "admit that AA is the only possible answer," in which case, I'll probably never be ready for it. But we'll see. Keep the seat warm for someone who needs it, and we'll see if that turns out to be me.
Dean--
Kudos to you in doing anything at all to turn yourself or your life around. I refuse to give advice. I have had the opportunity to experience it from the child of an alcoholics perspective as well as having been involved in 3 drinking and driving accidents that has resulted in loss of life caused by other drivers. In my opinion there are not first or second steps there are only steps in general and as long as things are working for you, you are taking them in the right order.
My hat is off to you!!