I don’t know how good they say he was but I always thought he was a pretty sloppy guitarist. As far as his style went, he was not much of an innovator in the mold of Jimi Hendrix or earlier trailblazers like Charlie Christian. He was very much an innovator when it came to layering (orchestrating?) guitar parts and some recording techniques. But for my money people like Peter Frampton had a much more distinctive style that was not so completely based in the dorian minor mode like so many blues based guitar players in the 70’s (also some of those guys in the artsy fartsy bands like Steve Howe of Yes ). Also people like Frank Zappa were light years ahead of people like page in the orchestrating department. As for blues based rockers, I would put Joe Perry against any of them. I think he is kind of under rated and he had a “funky” style.
Jimmy Page was a genuis writer, producer and marketer. Many serious guitar players (and "serious" is nearly a pejorative in my book) would say he was way too sloppy to be considered among the greats. Some of the live stuff I've heard is pretty hard to explain. But parts of their live DVD show what made them special. I saw 'em front row center at Chicago Stadium in April 77, which was like being transported to another planet.
I don't know what people mean by "sloppy". If they mean he missed a few licks during a live show, everyone does that although I didn't see any noticeably missed ones on the DVD. That could be editing.
Page compares favorably with everyone he is usually compared to (Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Alvin Lee, Ritchie Blackmore, etc). Pretty select company. Personally, I like Mark Knopfler better than any of these guys.
For my money, Peter Frampton doesn't belong in this kind of group. When I saw him with Humble Pie, he was not much more than an ornament.
I like Joe Perry but if you want underrated, try Andy Powell of Wishbone Ash.
Yes, Page was a great guitarist; I heartily agree. He played some amazing licks on all the albums, and did great stuff with alternate tunings, production, layering, all that.
HOWEVER, based on the concert footage I've seen, which admittedly is limited to this DVD and _The_Song_Remains_The_Same, a lot of his live solos are just...sloppy. They don't sound good. They sound like what they are: the work of a great guitarist who's exhausted and drug-addled.
I'm too young to have seen Zep in concert. I have no doubt that seeing them live for real was amazing. I'll have to settle for this DVD, and for my money, Bonham was the star of that.
Hell For get live recordings, Page was sloppy on his albums, the Living Loving Maid solo is trashy lick spewage. His most inspired solo is the Whole lot of Love solo. It was tight, short and made the tune.
Geez, Peter Framton, Joe Perry, Frank Zappa (to name soem guys in the 70's) could all play rings the guy and come back for more.
Gotta take exception to ya there, Rick. I am not a Led Zep fan from way back--they're hardly my favorite group, at all--but I picked up this live DVD and I was blown away. "Hard to explain" indeed. The man was awesome.
I think Page gets a bad rap from "The Song Remains the Same" being the most widely viewed/heard recording of his live work. his drug problems were pretty bad at that time and it is hardly indicative of his best work. All I can say is I'm too young to have seen LZ live but I was blown away by Page and The Firm when I saw them...one of the most incredible shows I've ever seen.
Fine he did some good work, no quibble there. The question seemed to be is he one of the greats? Again, his style was not particularly innovative. Someone mentioned Terry Kath, that guy pretty much invented Jazz/rock fusion. What exactly did Page give us? Nothing that had not been done before. Page is/was derivative, he had essentially a blues based style, heavily based on the dorian minor scale accented with a ton of pull offs hammer on rock clichés.
Look Jimi Hendrix was sloppy too, but he was a demarcation point in pop music. Nobody played like Hendrix before him and everybody played like him after him (including Page). Then you have guys who were distinctive in their style like Terry Kath and Frampton (I keep bringing him up because if you listen to his solos, particularly on his live album you hear him playing very fluid even jazz-like riffs which nobody in rock was doing except for people like Terry Kath).
Look I love Zeppelin, they were a historic band whose place in rock history is undiminished. It’s just that I have always felt that their greatness was due to the sum of the parts and not anyone individually. Sure they are all great players, but for my money the most original and distinctive “player” in the group was the drummer Bonham.
But this is all subjective anyway, I mean if you like the way Page plays the guitar cool, I do too, all I’m saying is that he never struck me as a revolutionary player in the mold of Charlie Christian, Les Paul or even Eddie Van Halan nor did he have a distinctive style like Terry Kath or Peter Frampton. Any other criteria for “greatness” is too subjective contradict.
Page was the one of the big three British guitarists, behind Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck, and one of the architects of hard rock and eventually heavy metal. Come on guys, every guitarist at one point or another attempts to learn part of Stairway to Heaven, and it's still the greatest guitar solo in rock history. Sure, he was sloppy at times, but he could still play as good as about anyone else out there. There are few guitarists who are as influential as Page is, so that alone merits him being called one of the best ever.
I have to give credit to Rick DeMent for mentioning Les Paul as a performer and not just as a guitar. The guy deserves some credit, which he really never gets.
hmmm sloppy? I saw them twice once on the Houses of Holy tour and then on the Physical Graffiti tour.
The first time Robert Plant's voice was slightly off. Jimmy never missed a note infact he played so sharp people's mouths were open at certain points. I was just in awe of his playing.
The 2nd time.. the band was perfect, voice, guitar ... stage. I'm glad those shows are embedded in my memory.
The man played with everything he had. When he made that guitar *talk* along with Plant's voice you'd had to be stone not to get goose bumps.
I don’t know how good they say he was but I always thought he was a pretty sloppy guitarist. As far as his style went, he was not much of an innovator in the mold of Jimi Hendrix or earlier trailblazers like Charlie Christian. He was very much an innovator when it came to layering (orchestrating?) guitar parts and some recording techniques. But for my money people like Peter Frampton had a much more distinctive style that was not so completely based in the dorian minor mode like so many blues based guitar players in the 70’s (also some of those guys in the artsy fartsy bands like Steve Howe of Yes ). Also people like Frank Zappa were light years ahead of people like page in the orchestrating department. As for blues based rockers, I would put Joe Perry against any of them. I think he is kind of under rated and he had a “funky” style.
yes. What Dean said.
Jimmy Page was a genuis writer, producer and marketer. Many serious guitar players (and "serious" is nearly a pejorative in my book) would say he was way too sloppy to be considered among the greats. Some of the live stuff I've heard is pretty hard to explain. But parts of their live DVD show what made them special. I saw 'em front row center at Chicago Stadium in April 77, which was like being transported to another planet.
I don't know what people mean by "sloppy". If they mean he missed a few licks during a live show, everyone does that although I didn't see any noticeably missed ones on the DVD. That could be editing.
Page compares favorably with everyone he is usually compared to (Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Alvin Lee, Ritchie Blackmore, etc). Pretty select company. Personally, I like Mark Knopfler better than any of these guys.
For my money, Peter Frampton doesn't belong in this kind of group. When I saw him with Humble Pie, he was not much more than an ornament.
I like Joe Perry but if you want underrated, try Andy Powell of Wishbone Ash.
He was ahead of his time.
To all critics of Jimmy Page: Listen to Led Zepplin I (the whole album) and see if you still feel the same.
I'm going to second Rick DeMent on the "sloppy."
Yes, Page was a great guitarist; I heartily agree. He played some amazing licks on all the albums, and did great stuff with alternate tunings, production, layering, all that.
HOWEVER, based on the concert footage I've seen, which admittedly is limited to this DVD and _The_Song_Remains_The_Same, a lot of his live solos are just...sloppy. They don't sound good. They sound like what they are: the work of a great guitarist who's exhausted and drug-addled.
I'm too young to have seen Zep in concert. I have no doubt that seeing them live for real was amazing. I'll have to settle for this DVD, and for my money, Bonham was the star of that.
Hell For get live recordings, Page was sloppy on his albums, the Living Loving Maid solo is trashy lick spewage. His most inspired solo is the Whole lot of Love solo. It was tight, short and made the tune.
Geez, Peter Framton, Joe Perry, Frank Zappa (to name soem guys in the 70's) could all play rings the guy and come back for more.
Hmmm...mudshark not included?
Zappa.
Listen to "Hot Rats"
Zappa.
Listen to "Hot Rats"
Gotta take exception to ya there, Rick. I am not a Led Zep fan from way back--they're hardly my favorite group, at all--but I picked up this live DVD and I was blown away. "Hard to explain" indeed. The man was awesome.
And Bonzo was just that good too. :-)
Listen to Jimmy's guitar solo on "I'm Gonna Crawl", off of In Through The Outdoor. Beautiful, bluesy and straight to the point.
Page? He's no Terry Kath, but he'll do.
I think Page gets a bad rap from "The Song Remains the Same" being the most widely viewed/heard recording of his live work. his drug problems were pretty bad at that time and it is hardly indicative of his best work. All I can say is I'm too young to have seen LZ live but I was blown away by Page and The Firm when I saw them...one of the most incredible shows I've ever seen.
Zeppelin Rule. All of them. End of story.
Dean,
Fine he did some good work, no quibble there. The question seemed to be is he one of the greats? Again, his style was not particularly innovative. Someone mentioned Terry Kath, that guy pretty much invented Jazz/rock fusion. What exactly did Page give us? Nothing that had not been done before. Page is/was derivative, he had essentially a blues based style, heavily based on the dorian minor scale accented with a ton of pull offs hammer on rock clichés.
Look Jimi Hendrix was sloppy too, but he was a demarcation point in pop music. Nobody played like Hendrix before him and everybody played like him after him (including Page). Then you have guys who were distinctive in their style like Terry Kath and Frampton (I keep bringing him up because if you listen to his solos, particularly on his live album you hear him playing very fluid even jazz-like riffs which nobody in rock was doing except for people like Terry Kath).
Look I love Zeppelin, they were a historic band whose place in rock history is undiminished. It’s just that I have always felt that their greatness was due to the sum of the parts and not anyone individually. Sure they are all great players, but for my money the most original and distinctive “player” in the group was the drummer Bonham.
But this is all subjective anyway, I mean if you like the way Page plays the guitar cool, I do too, all I’m saying is that he never struck me as a revolutionary player in the mold of Charlie Christian, Les Paul or even Eddie Van Halan nor did he have a distinctive style like Terry Kath or Peter Frampton. Any other criteria for “greatness” is too subjective contradict.
Page was the one of the big three British guitarists, behind Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck, and one of the architects of hard rock and eventually heavy metal. Come on guys, every guitarist at one point or another attempts to learn part of Stairway to Heaven, and it's still the greatest guitar solo in rock history. Sure, he was sloppy at times, but he could still play as good as about anyone else out there. There are few guitarists who are as influential as Page is, so that alone merits him being called one of the best ever.
I have to give credit to Rick DeMent for mentioning Les Paul as a performer and not just as a guitar. The guy deserves some credit, which he really never gets.
hmmm sloppy? I saw them twice once on the Houses of Holy tour and then on the Physical Graffiti tour.
The first time Robert Plant's voice was slightly off. Jimmy never missed a note infact he played so sharp people's mouths were open at certain points. I was just in awe of his playing.
The 2nd time.. the band was perfect, voice, guitar ... stage. I'm glad those shows are embedded in my memory.
The man played with everything he had. When he made that guitar *talk* along with Plant's voice you'd had to be stone not to get goose bumps.