One of the more interesting characteristics about Arabs that I witnessed when I lived in Jerusalem in 1973-1974 was a mercurial temperament which they all but wear on their sleeve. I assumed they lack the emotional self-control of relatively non-demonstrative peoples such as Japanese and Russians. You know at any moment whether they love you or hate you. And it can switch quickly depending on external events, mood, degree of relationship or numerous other considerations.
I conditioned myself over a couple of decades to exercise intense dislike and mistrust about them. But I work hard to make sure my generalizations about Arabs will not cloud my judgement of the importance of the work the United States and its allies are undertaking to remake Iraq and its diverse nations into a single viable, stable, constitutionally-organized republic that will keep the domestic and international peace.
So I hope the grinning guys with the Coke/Pepsi and the orange soda pop will keep smiling and laughing with us, in celebration of the curse that our country has lifted from theirs.
But there will be times when they will glower at our cameramen and show their extreme displeasure, perhaps for something we cannot begin to comprehend.
Even so, we must ourselves learn to overlook the high and low points of our mass personal relationships with the Iraqis, treat them fairly and with respect in return for their doing the same with us and our servicemen, shoot them dead when they threaten our lives, and -- above all -- be patient enough to recognize that modifying a social and political culture, as we are obviously working at, will certainly takes many decades and may in fact require centuries before it takes full effect. Because this is what must be done.
Have you ever considered, Arnold, that the Arabs you are most familiar with are Palestinians, who, with some exceptions, are lifelong welfare dependents? They will therefore tend to evince all the negative sequalae that welfare dependency breeds: lack of pride, unfocused anger and resentment, frustration, lack of hope, lack of purpose.
Short-term welfare dependency to help someone through tough times is one thing. Live that existence for generation after generation, and see what you get. The results were obvious in our inner cities here in the US before welfare reform started to clean that up.
So, whatever else may be said of Arab culture, we know that Palestine is the most brutal, most squalid variant of it. It's not that the people are evil, but their environment--with some exceptions--is squalid and hopeless. But the Palestinians I know who've emigrated here have all been smart, hard-working citizens. Hell, my doctor's Palestinian, and one hell of a nice guy. He got out, made something of himself, and good for him. But it's telling that the best way to make a decent life for yourself is to get the hell out of that place.
So here's my point: it strikes me that judging the Arab world based on what you've seen of Palestine is rather akin to judging the entirety of Mexico and the rest of Latin America based on what you find in some squalid border town along the Rio Grande.
You are right about cultural differences among the various Arab national communities, Dean. My own wife, a trained anthropologist reminds me continually of these considerations.
About this long-term welfare dependency and its negative results. I hope we do not establish such a system in Iraq. Everyone in that country ought to be sent back to work as soon as practicable, so that each man will know he honestly earned what he is living on, and, hopefully, gain in self-respect. Because without personal self-respect there can be no sense of being an equal stakeholder in any society. This also applies to Iraqi women, because they are likely to have a lot more equality in the future than women have in most other Arab cultures and countries.
What your doctor friend, the former Palestinian, told you is correct. The Arab rulers, the leadership of the Palestinians themselves, and the UNO put about 600,000-700,000 Arabs into refugee camps in 1948-1949 and kept them there instead of resettling them in any of more than 20 Arab countries with room enough to settle scores of millions of persons. This dependency on outside money continues to this very day, whereas for the Israelis, most of the guaranteed loans and other handouts they get from the United States are spent on defense.
Now, to an increasing extent, the Palestine Arabs are dependent on jobs in Israel which they are locked out of every time Hamas, the el-Aqsa brigades, Fatah, or some other blatherskite gang of murderers decides to murder some Israelis to show off their manhood. Since these gangs are more powerful than any civil government likely to come to power among the Palestine Arabs, no peace is likely possible, and no way out from the poverty of their stinking barrios. I've some of the squalor along the Rio Grande, but Mexicans are nothing to compare with the what you would find in the counterpart in Gaza, Rafah, Khan Yunis, Hebron, Bethlehem, Nablus, Jenin, Kalkiliya, Ramallah or their surrounding villages.
Dean, I think it's worth noting that the "welfare" state of Palestine certainly isn't one because the occupants have decided they want it to be. The inter-cultural war between the Israelis and the Palestinians has devastated the economy. These _are_ hard-working people. They'd be working if they had the choice, if there were jobs, and if their factories weren't reduced to rubble by bulldozers.
They'd be working in the settlements if it were possible.
It is worth noting. That said, it doesn't take away from the fact that a huge majority of them live on welfare. Choice or not it still wrecks havoc on self respect.
Ross, I hate to be rude here, but what the hell are you talking about?
You cannot be a "hard working person" when you've never had a real job in your whole life, which is the state the majority of Palestinians find themselves in.
Furthermore, not one Israeli settlement can be blamed for the lack of jobs, nor can any house being knocked down do that. But in point of fact, the percentage of Palestinians who've had their houses knocked down is tiny, and the amount of land taken up by those settlements (which are rather stupid, by the way) is also quite tiny. Neither that, nor anything else the Israelis have done, can be anything but a minor cause of the Palestinians' problems as a people.
Lifelong, multi-generational welfare dependency is the rule, not the exception, in Palestine, and not one single settlement, not one single house being knocked down, is any way a cause of that.
The Palestinians have been screwed over by their brother Arabs, by dysfunctional policies put in place by the UN, and by a tyrannical dictator named Yasser Arafat. Arafat's fomenting hatred of Jews has only exacerbated the problem, by distracting from issues that might actually make their lives different over there.
Actually, Dean, Arafat was democratically elected awhile back, and would be the prohibitive favorite to win again if elections were held among Palestinians today.
You're absolutely correct in everything else you say here, however. Carry on.
Dean, the anomalies that Arnold noted aren't limited to just Palestine, and they go back a long way in that region. Reread your Kipling and your Burton sometimes.
Hospitality is a sacred custom in the middle east. So is a deep running sense of personal honor that's dissimilar to what westerners consider honorable... in some cases, it's closer to the sense of honor of an Apache [or a Tsalagi]. The combination of the two can lead to the dichotomy that Arnold noted: friend one minute, deadly enemy the next over a slight that a westerner wouldn't even recognise as a deadly insult.
Different cultures: not "just Americans with a turban and a different language" any more than an Amerind is "just like a european with a darker skin tone".
It's important, it matters, and it's essential in understanding the events and actions/reactions that will inevitably crop up between us.
I admit that I haven't done much research, but I think your estimate of Palestinian 'welfare' might be a bit overstated. Most estimates I have seen show unemployment ranging from 20% during 'peaceful' times to 50% during border closures. And I also don't think that takes into consideration that many palestinians work as farmers/migrant labor and as 'independent' merchants...most of whom probably would not be included in labor stats.
"Lifelong, multi-generational welfare dependency is the rule, not the exception" is probably true for the refugee camps, but these aren't representative of the majority of the palestinian people. I think most of the 'welfare' is diverted directly to Arafat and his flunkies.
I submit that that 20% who are chronically unemployed are the ones who produce most of the anger, most of the violence. And those who periodically fall into the 50% range, who would have spent much of their lives in the same dependencies, likely produce most of the rest.
The social sequalae of lifelong welfare dependency is the same no matter where you go, no matter what culture you're in. It's a devastating, soul-destroying condition to be in--as Franklin Roosevelt said, a narcotic for the soul.
As for Arafat being democratically elected: oh, true enough, if you don't mention the fact that any person seriously inclined to oppose him is either smart enough to know he'd be killed, or has already been killed.
Well when you consider that almost all of the Arab oil pricapalities are basically socialist and living off the money generated by resources, including Saudi Arabia and Kuwait what do you think of those countries, the Kuwaities seem to be fairly productive and don;t seem to have a lot of unfocused anger, the Saudies only seem to get angry when the money gets cut off.
One of the more interesting characteristics about Arabs that I witnessed when I lived in Jerusalem in 1973-1974 was a mercurial temperament which they all but wear on their sleeve. I assumed they lack the emotional self-control of relatively non-demonstrative peoples such as Japanese and Russians. You know at any moment whether they love you or hate you. And it can switch quickly depending on external events, mood, degree of relationship or numerous other considerations.
I conditioned myself over a couple of decades to exercise intense dislike and mistrust about them. But I work hard to make sure my generalizations about Arabs will not cloud my judgement of the importance of the work the United States and its allies are undertaking to remake Iraq and its diverse nations into a single viable, stable, constitutionally-organized republic that will keep the domestic and international peace.
So I hope the grinning guys with the Coke/Pepsi and the orange soda pop will keep smiling and laughing with us, in celebration of the curse that our country has lifted from theirs.
But there will be times when they will glower at our cameramen and show their extreme displeasure, perhaps for something we cannot begin to comprehend.
Even so, we must ourselves learn to overlook the high and low points of our mass personal relationships with the Iraqis, treat them fairly and with respect in return for their doing the same with us and our servicemen, shoot them dead when they threaten our lives, and -- above all -- be patient enough to recognize that modifying a social and political culture, as we are obviously working at, will certainly takes many decades and may in fact require centuries before it takes full effect. Because this is what must be done.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
This picture does say it all. I love the guy in a sheikh headdress, swigging back Coca Cola. Brings a lump to my throat.
I must admit I am confused by the title. It smacks of sarcasm, and this doesn't fit my perception of the current liberal view.
I have been searching for a group of level headed democrats, and I may have found them.
God Bless
Have you ever considered, Arnold, that the Arabs you are most familiar with are Palestinians, who, with some exceptions, are lifelong welfare dependents? They will therefore tend to evince all the negative sequalae that welfare dependency breeds: lack of pride, unfocused anger and resentment, frustration, lack of hope, lack of purpose.
Short-term welfare dependency to help someone through tough times is one thing. Live that existence for generation after generation, and see what you get. The results were obvious in our inner cities here in the US before welfare reform started to clean that up.
So, whatever else may be said of Arab culture, we know that Palestine is the most brutal, most squalid variant of it. It's not that the people are evil, but their environment--with some exceptions--is squalid and hopeless. But the Palestinians I know who've emigrated here have all been smart, hard-working citizens. Hell, my doctor's Palestinian, and one hell of a nice guy. He got out, made something of himself, and good for him. But it's telling that the best way to make a decent life for yourself is to get the hell out of that place.
So here's my point: it strikes me that judging the Arab world based on what you've seen of Palestine is rather akin to judging the entirety of Mexico and the rest of Latin America based on what you find in some squalid border town along the Rio Grande.
You are right about cultural differences among the various Arab national communities, Dean. My own wife, a trained anthropologist reminds me continually of these considerations.
About this long-term welfare dependency and its negative results. I hope we do not establish such a system in Iraq. Everyone in that country ought to be sent back to work as soon as practicable, so that each man will know he honestly earned what he is living on, and, hopefully, gain in self-respect. Because without personal self-respect there can be no sense of being an equal stakeholder in any society. This also applies to Iraqi women, because they are likely to have a lot more equality in the future than women have in most other Arab cultures and countries.
What your doctor friend, the former Palestinian, told you is correct. The Arab rulers, the leadership of the Palestinians themselves, and the UNO put about 600,000-700,000 Arabs into refugee camps in 1948-1949 and kept them there instead of resettling them in any of more than 20 Arab countries with room enough to settle scores of millions of persons. This dependency on outside money continues to this very day, whereas for the Israelis, most of the guaranteed loans and other handouts they get from the United States are spent on defense.
Now, to an increasing extent, the Palestine Arabs are dependent on jobs in Israel which they are locked out of every time Hamas, the el-Aqsa brigades, Fatah, or some other blatherskite gang of murderers decides to murder some Israelis to show off their manhood. Since these gangs are more powerful than any civil government likely to come to power among the Palestine Arabs, no peace is likely possible, and no way out from the poverty of their stinking barrios. I've some of the squalor along the Rio Grande, but Mexicans are nothing to compare with the what you would find in the counterpart in Gaza, Rafah, Khan Yunis, Hebron, Bethlehem, Nablus, Jenin, Kalkiliya, Ramallah or their surrounding villages.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Great picture.
Volatile Arabs? I dunno. Look at the swings in Bush's approval ratings. Those volatile Americans.
Dean, I think it's worth noting that the "welfare" state of Palestine certainly isn't one because the occupants have decided they want it to be. The inter-cultural war between the Israelis and the Palestinians has devastated the economy. These _are_ hard-working people. They'd be working if they had the choice, if there were jobs, and if their factories weren't reduced to rubble by bulldozers.
They'd be working in the settlements if it were possible.
I'd say the parallels are minimal.
Ross:
It is worth noting. That said, it doesn't take away from the fact that a huge majority of them live on welfare. Choice or not it still wrecks havoc on self respect.
Ross, I hate to be rude here, but what the hell are you talking about?
You cannot be a "hard working person" when you've never had a real job in your whole life, which is the state the majority of Palestinians find themselves in.
Furthermore, not one Israeli settlement can be blamed for the lack of jobs, nor can any house being knocked down do that. But in point of fact, the percentage of Palestinians who've had their houses knocked down is tiny, and the amount of land taken up by those settlements (which are rather stupid, by the way) is also quite tiny. Neither that, nor anything else the Israelis have done, can be anything but a minor cause of the Palestinians' problems as a people.
Lifelong, multi-generational welfare dependency is the rule, not the exception, in Palestine, and not one single settlement, not one single house being knocked down, is any way a cause of that.
The Palestinians have been screwed over by their brother Arabs, by dysfunctional policies put in place by the UN, and by a tyrannical dictator named Yasser Arafat. Arafat's fomenting hatred of Jews has only exacerbated the problem, by distracting from issues that might actually make their lives different over there.
Actually, Dean, Arafat was democratically elected awhile back, and would be the prohibitive favorite to win again if elections were held among Palestinians today.
You're absolutely correct in everything else you say here, however. Carry on.
Dean, the anomalies that Arnold noted aren't limited to just Palestine, and they go back a long way in that region. Reread your Kipling and your Burton sometimes.
Hospitality is a sacred custom in the middle east. So is a deep running sense of personal honor that's dissimilar to what westerners consider honorable... in some cases, it's closer to the sense of honor of an Apache [or a Tsalagi]. The combination of the two can lead to the dichotomy that Arnold noted: friend one minute, deadly enemy the next over a slight that a westerner wouldn't even recognise as a deadly insult.
Different cultures: not "just Americans with a turban and a different language" any more than an Amerind is "just like a european with a darker skin tone".
It's important, it matters, and it's essential in understanding the events and actions/reactions that will inevitably crop up between us.
I admit that I haven't done much research, but I think your estimate of Palestinian 'welfare' might be a bit overstated. Most estimates I have seen show unemployment ranging from 20% during 'peaceful' times to 50% during border closures. And I also don't think that takes into consideration that many palestinians work as farmers/migrant labor and as 'independent' merchants...most of whom probably would not be included in labor stats.
"Lifelong, multi-generational welfare dependency is the rule, not the exception" is probably true for the refugee camps, but these aren't representative of the majority of the palestinian people. I think most of the 'welfare' is diverted directly to Arafat and his flunkies.
I submit that that 20% who are chronically unemployed are the ones who produce most of the anger, most of the violence. And those who periodically fall into the 50% range, who would have spent much of their lives in the same dependencies, likely produce most of the rest.
The social sequalae of lifelong welfare dependency is the same no matter where you go, no matter what culture you're in. It's a devastating, soul-destroying condition to be in--as Franklin Roosevelt said, a narcotic for the soul.
As for Arafat being democratically elected: oh, true enough, if you don't mention the fact that any person seriously inclined to oppose him is either smart enough to know he'd be killed, or has already been killed.
Well when you consider that almost all of the Arab oil pricapalities are basically socialist and living off the money generated by resources, including Saudi Arabia and Kuwait what do you think of those countries, the Kuwaities seem to be fairly productive and don;t seem to have a lot of unfocused anger, the Saudies only seem to get angry when the money gets cut off.