From NRO,"From an American point of view, Poland is a much, much better France than the France we've been patiently indulging."
"Poles are exactly like the French, except that they are trustworthy, hard-working, don't whine, understand the truth of their own history, love foreigners, and take care of their families. And talk about a sense of humor? Listen, some of my best jokes are Polish jokes. The rest are from the Catskills. Thank you. I'll be here all weekend." written by: Denis Boyles at The National Review.
As a proud, 1st generation, American woman and daughter of Polish immigrants I just want to say:
Thank you for noticing.
The Poles love America and Americans. When I went to Poland in 1993, my Dad gave me a piece of advice that would not work well - in France. He told me to speak in English and under no circumstances to speak Polish in public. Told me that I would be treated better and by default so would my Mom. He was right. They looked at me like I was royalty and treated me wonderfully. Since I am fluent in Polish, I could tell they were awestruck and not just faking it. They are genuine and kind. An elderly woman offered me her seat on a crowded bus - I politely declined since I was 25 and she was like a 100. My Mom said it was because she had never seen a very tan, very blond amazon woman before. The tan gave me away - as did my enormous height of 5'7.
Poland is great and I'm glad she's getting some notice!!!
Everybody Sing!
Jeszcze Polska nie zginela,
Kiedy my zyjemy.
Co nam obca przemoc wziela,
Szabla odbierzemy.
Marsz, marsz, Dabrowski,
Z ziemi wloskiej do Polski,
Za twoim przewodem
Zlaczym sie z narodem.
Przejdziem Wisle, przejdziem Warte,
Bedziem Polakami,
Dal nam przyklad Bonaparte,
Jak zwyciezac mamy.
Marsz, marsz, Dabrowski,
Z ziemi wloskiej do Polski,
Za twoim przewodem
Zlaczym sie z narodem.
Jak Czarniecki do Poznania
Po szwedzkim zaborze,
Dla ojczyzny ratowania
Wracal sie przez morze.
Marsz, marsz, Dabrowski,
Z ziemi wloskiej do Polski,
Za twoim przewodem
Zlaczym sie z narodem.
What the heck am I singing? Please translate!
I just wanna know how to join Adam's club....
Poland's National Anthem
English translation:
1. Poland is not yet lost
while we live
We will fight (with swords) for all/
That our enemies had taken from us.
Refrain:
March, march Dabrowski
from Italy to Poland
Under your command
we will reunite with the nation.
We will cross the Vistula and Warta Rivers,/
we will be Poles,/ Bonaparte showed us/ how to win.
Refrain: March, march...
Like Czarniecki to Poznan, after Swedish annexation,
We will come back across the sea to save our motherland
Refrain: March, march...
Father, in tears, says to his Basia: "Just listen,
It seems that our people are beating the drums."
Refrain: March, march...
I'm a fellow Polack (maiden name Yarnot) but second-generation (I think it was my grandparents who immigrated, but I'm not sure.) My dad doesn't remember most of the Polish he grew up speaking, but he remembers the food!
Rosemary,
I assume you're going to get more than one reply of this kind so I'll try to keep my irritation under moderate control.
As there is one third world immigrant group one is permitted, as a liberal, to make copious fun of (Indians) there is one nationality one may crudely and tritely disparage without raising eyebrows. The exceptions rival each other in unveiling the utter triteness of certain aspects of liberal culture. I won't got into a long rant about the contributions of the French to art - too well known, or should be. Nor will I elaborate on the extraordinary courage of resistance fighters, the relative absence of racism (as compared to much of the U.S.) enjoyed by the French, the superlative social benefit system, etc. I will confine myself to pointing out the absurdity of making the kind of generality made above by someone undoubted not terribly well acquainted with either the language, or the culture, or with anything else outside of the scope of few facile comments made in the op-ed of your favorite on-line journal. Grow up.
I need to grow up?
Because finally the country of my parents birth and all my relatives is for once - not the butt of a joke.
I did not personally make a slight against France. I pointed to the article for the sole reason that Poland was getting some kudos.
the relative absence of racism (as compared to much of the U.S.)enjoyed by the French
Yeah, well I guess anti-semitism doesn't count then right? I mean isn't it the French that like to read by the light of burning synagogues?
And just so you know. I am familiar with the history of France and I have studied French - I am not fluent as I have only a couple years of college french jammed into my enormous brain.
The problem most people have with France is not it's history but it's present. The current leadership and attitude of some of it's people.
You aren't going to change any attitudes with the presumption that everyone else is ignorant. France has a glorious past and has been a longtime friend of the U.S. - many feel rather slighted by France's betrayal in the U.N.
Frankly, if you need the approval of tourists to maintain your sense of identity you're not much use to the motherland.
"except that they are trustworthy, hard-working, don't whine, understand the truth of their own history, love foreigners, and take care of their families" -
and if this is not a slight, my dear - what is?
re: antisemitism - who here can name at least one huge Polish concentration camp? My Jewish grandfather, years before Auschwitz, left Poland on foot to walk to France to escape the Pogroms. The French are indeed guilty of atrocities, and Colonial excesses, and certain cultural traits which can be glibly glossed over as if they were representative of a collective national soul - but this kind of facile hostility, masquerading as a kind of hip knowingness is no more insightful and no less foolish than the easy targeting of Americans as boorish and uneducated, or the Poles of being Brutish and Stupid.
Incidentally, don't forget who deified Chopin...
First, the slight you refer to is a quote from the article. I didn't write it I reprinted it.
Second, the Pogroms that occurred before Auchwitz were Nazi inspired. As was Auchwitz. The Nazi's were German and they took over Poland. You know invaded. There was a Pogrom after WWII in Kielece. It happened on July 4,1946. It was not a proud moment. It was taboo to talk about it for years. But that happened more than 50 years ago.
The anti-semitism in France is current and on-going.
Look, I get it. You are insulted and I'm going off on the defensive. I would be doing exactly as you are if the roles were reversed.
So, I apologize that you are offended. I apologize to all people of French decent for the offense - except Chirac and De Villepain. Those two suck.
Seriously. I am sorry.
Incidently, I am an American - the U.S is my land. I am not needing the approval of tourists. I just like to see Poland get some positive recognition. It's a new thing. And, it's nice to see.
Rose:
Forget art, just look at how many scientists and mathematicians Poland gave to the world.
Who can name a French scientist, except Mme. Curie? And she was Polish!! :)
One name: Lobachevsky.
One more: Copernicus. Can't recall his actual, non-latinized name. Was it Kopernicu?
http://cemetery.ng.pl/comments/index.php3
Look, Rosemary, read the above *current* exchange and see if it doesn't make your blood run cold. When you're done with that, check out current Polish attitudes towards the gypsies. Then take a quick peek at the current stance of the Polish Catholic Church vis-a-vis the Auschwitz memorial. Nationalism is the province of no one nation, or group, and is a shadow's breath from racism. Religious chauvinism is even closer. Were I to have googled on French racism, moreover I would never be finished cutting and pasting. Xenophobia is, particularly in French petit-bourgeois circles, perfectly de rigeur. I would simply counsel you against making or quoting (the emphasis was in fact yours) facile, disparaging remarks. It undermines your otherwise thoughtful commentary. Being half French, (I am also a U.S. born American) I am in fact offended, but frankly, your statement was also an easy target for my irritation with half-assed thinking in general.
In finding this rabidly anti-semitic site (among other more official sources who blithely blame the Holocaust on Jewish collaboration), I will add, I found any number of sites devoted to Polish resistance and to the extraordinary # who died also in the camps.
My point is is that all generalizations are odious (not to mention obfuscating, misinformed, and potentially dangerous) and meant to be made in the select company of one's peers - who know you better - not in a public forum.
re: French politicians - you forgot the disgusting Le Pen who got a sizeable minority of votes in the last elections.
Mr. Tomkins - Pasteur, deBroglie (chem 101 - its right there,) and Pascal ring a bell? A quick google would have saved you the embarassment.
Dominique:
Yes, that did make me sick. I agree with you. That is why I took off my emphasis.
Anti-semitism and any kind of racism makes me ill.
I really apologize. I mean it. It was wrong and I will dedicate a new post to make amends.
A gracious retraction - hats off (chapeau). Perhaps you might follow it by finding some suitable quote that doesn't laud Poland or the Poles strictly in terms of superior attractiveness to the French or anybody else. As I have many other things that I should be doing, I spent a pleasant 20 minutes just now coming up with possible alternative sources.
Here's one among several:http://mysite.freeserve.com/poland/index.jhtml
written by an American also married to a Polish girl (or woman depending on your attachment to the word.)
Two quick divulgences 1) I have been, even within recent memory, brought up on charges of subtle and less subtle bigotry. Categorization is a by product of the human brain - feelings of pleasant superiority are just the cream on the pudding. 2) I have, regrettably, met a number of French men and women who are in fact as overly indulged, whiny and generally irritating as charged. Also a number who are not. My response to anti French sentiment is on the whole not different than my response to European bigotry regarding the American South: which South, and which France?
Again, I admire your good faith and absence of egotism and malice.
To denigrate the French or France, does not bode well for Americans. France not only gave you Americans your country at Yorktown, but also the Statue of Liberty. Without France there might not have been a United States of America. For Rep. Bob Ney to ask the House Cafetaria to rename the French fries and French toast was really petty. Worse still was for others with small minds like Bob Ney to join him in hisinsanity. I am proud to be a citizen of the European Union, and can hold my head high in defence of France a sister state of that European family. Vive la France! Vive la Union Europeene!
Didn't think this site was taking messages anymore.
Kenneth, La France vous salue.