Fred Phelps, of the Westboro Baptist Church, gets a lot of press attention for his hateful speech, often directed against gays. I've always found the attention he gets rather disturbing, since any time I've done any digging on the guy, it appears that he runs a tiny church. They appear to have a couple of hundred members, and on any given Sunday they have only a few dozen people in attendance. When he and his group go to demonstrations, it's almost invariably just a handful of people that he's managed to bring along with him.
Yet he gets attention anyway, and lots of it, from the press. Perhaps exposing him is healthy, I don't know. But he does seem to me to get far more attention than he deserves, and that there's an equal chance that giving him much attention just increases his power.
Phelps is often referred to as a "right wing extremist." But as the Seamole weblog points out, what Phelps is is an anti-American hatemonger, period. He runs a site called "God Hates America," he protested the war in Iraq, and has even gone to Baghdad to lead anti-American demonstrations. He says God hates Rush Limbaugh, and recently picketed the Betty Ford Center.
Which brings me back to square one: the guy's a hatemonger and an idiot. I really do wonder if paying him any attention at all just gives him what he wants. Loons like this make it hard for anyone to have a civil discussion on certain hotbutton issues, and it gives the loons what they want: attention, and bitter acrimony.
Note: I'm not criticizing anyone for discussing or condemning this moron. Hell, I'm doing it myself. But I do hope people think about how we might be playing into his hands when we make a big deal out of him. What we should be doing is treating him like the tiny voice and pathetic insect that he is.
You are right, Dean. This individual is a media whore. He knows he will get the publicity he wants, despite the fact that his "ministry" has next to no followers, and so he always has something very extreme, and very hateful to say. And what happens at rallys is this - Fred shows up starts saying ridiculous stuff, baits some angry gay activists, gets an argument or a screaming match going, which brings out the TV and Press cameras working overtime, and Fred is on TV!!!!!
The best thing to do with extremists like Fred Phelps is to pay them no attention, and over time, they will go away and disappear. Paying attention only makes it easier for him to continue to do what he is doing, which is hateful and completely moronic.
Here's Fred with his pal Al Gore.
Actually, he also fits the agenda of media people (who desire conflict in stories) and homosexual activists (who desire to paint everyone who opposes them into the same idiot corner with Fred Phelps). The atheist fringe finds him a poster boy for everything they despise about religion. He's classic tempest in a teapot.
Living in DFW, it was always interesting to watch when they did a story on homosexual rights, they would go talk to this one independent baptist pastor who had a mid-size congregation. He was known to say the most outlandish things (not quite Phelps, but close), and so reporters would call him *knowing* that he would give them outlandish quotes. This despite the fact that *independent* baptists are people who think Southern Baptist are liberals, so 95 percent of the christian population of the area didn't agree with him.
i think Phelps just hates everyone, himself included. I say we start a write-in campaign to his doctor to up his lithium.
Wow, even an anti-American hate monger like Fred Phelps can be used as a way to trash Al Gore. Kudos, but like Clinton's signature on the Defense of Marriage act and his sponsorship of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" weren't enough evidence of moderate Democrat attitudes toward gay liberation. Choosing between Democrats and Republicans on gay issues is like deciding which foster family will abuse you less.
I think that Phelps gets all the attention he gets because, while his beliefs aren't necessarily extreme -- i.e., being gay is wrong and immoral (lots of people believe this) -- the methods he uses to express his beliefs are shocking to even the most socially-conservative sensibilities. Picketing a the funeral of a young man who was beaten to death, desecrating the graves of AIDS victims, publicly comparing homosexual people to animals and accusing us of bringing destruction down upon America -- Phelps takes the idea that being gay is contrary to the Bible and to the foundations of society to its conclusion, which is at once logical and appallingly irrational.
Both sides of the aisle (or both sides of the coin as I like to call them) will use a Fred Phelps for whatever political ends they want. I've had enough first-hand experience with the political process to know that rhetoric will grow in manure from any sort of animal. From a societal standpoint, however, Phelps bothers people so much because he seems incapable of euphemism. We're sinners, we're abominations, we're against God and country, we're base animals, we eat feces, we prey upon children, and we're going to hell. No talk of "family values" or "2000 years of tradition" there. We're beasts who reap death for our vile acts.
These beliefs aren't exactly *rare*, either in the United States or in other parts of the world; and as for the religions who impose these beliefs, take your pick. To see such beliefs expressed in such a vulgar and extreme manner, however, is I think why Phelps gets such a rise out of so many people. What *kind* of rise he gets out of people is based, I think, on their attitudes toward homosexuality in general, and seem to range from amusement to embarrassment to revulsion.
I have to admit that if I saw him on the street, I would have to consciously struggle with the urge to spit in his face. What he and his handful of followers do is comparable to walking through a predominantly black community with a sign reading "ALL NIGGERS MUST DIE". If such a person encountered violence, I don't think anyone would condone it. I also don't think anyone would be surprised.
You're right Dean, "Pastor" Fred isn't really a right winger. He's a whack job, a sef centered homophobic hate monger, a mentally unbalanced crank and an ambulance chaser, but he's not a right winger, not in any sense of the word - he's so far gone he's got a wing all his own.
The more I find out about him the more I realize that the Rev. Phelps is a really strange cat, he actually spent much of his early career as a tireless activists for black civil rights. But later in life that became twisted too. As an attorney the Reverend shifted to a new form of activism, taking cases and filing suits alleging racial prejudice, racism, etc., even when none was evident - normally settling out of court with companies and taking his exorbitant "fees" off the top. So really much like his "church" he twisted his law practice until it was all about him.
Phelps even tried his hand in politics a few times, running unopposed in a Democratic primary for the District Attorney of Shawnee County (luckily he failed to qualify at the last minute), and running later as a Democratic candidate for Governor of Kansas. He's like Lyndon LaRouche without the charisma.
As an attorney he's sued President Reagan for appointing an ambassador to the Vatican, he's sued to stop moments of silence in schools and he's sued a teacher who criticized the doctrine of predestination. He's all over the place - left, right and huh? I mean that last one really should make you think - the precepts of predestination hold you are what you were born to be, so when the Reverend says God hates fags, doesn't he realize that they're gay because God made them that way? Crazy shit.
Phelps is a really dangerous whack job, people need to know about him - they need to study him, possibly even dissect him...preferrably alive.
Bryan beat me to it - I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that this Phelps character was first brought to national attention by some gay rights group tyring to prove a point.
Anyone with sense would observe "God hates fags" in the title and immediately understand that the author is entirely without merit in any conceivable discussion and then move on. But, no, the desire for juicy copy plus the desire by some to make the United States appear in a bad light brings these cockroaches to light, and keeps them there.
I first heard of Phelps in a feature segment with Diane Sawyer on Dateline, I think sometime before 1995. Since I discovered that this hate monger lived in Topeka Ks where my sister lived,
I was totally shocked. The next time I visited
Topeka I asked my sister about him. She is a
Babtist and she loathes him. People in Topeka
tried to shut him up but his knowledge of the law
gives him a great advantage. Plus he would go after anyone who attacked him and harrassed them
I've been saying for the last decade, the press relishes highlighting his protests. Too bad because if he were ignored, he'd be finished as a
hate monger in very public ways.
Personally, I think the guy is about as sane
as Charlie Manson. He shows up around my city in Iowa about every three years spewing his hate speech. I am an evangelical Christian and I know for certain that the God I worship will deal harshly with Phelps both in this earthly life and in eternal life. He's created his own hell on earth. I'm also dismayed that the notariety
he receives from the press and TV causes the countless good, kind, loving and compassionate Christians I know and worship with to be tarred with the same brush in the eyes of those who
reject Christianity and want to believe that we
are evil instead of good, though we have our flaws to be sure.
I really do wonder if paying him any attention at all just gives him what he wants.
Well, you've accomplished step one for him anyway.
ooh, Ara, but if we ignored him completely, we'd be stifling dissent.
/sarcasm
Yeah, I was gonna say what Bryan said. The media focuses attention on him because focusing on an extremist nut fits their pro-gay agenda.
They can say they balanced the story, but instead they interviewed the nuttiest nut extremist they could find. Playboy did the same thing for years with the Rev. Donald Wildmon -- I'd rarely hear about him other than in the pages of Playboy, which I read for the pictures, er, articles. It got predictable and boring.
I occasionally pass by Fred's people standing on street corners of Topeka with their hateful, silly signs.
Nobody pays much if any attention to these kooks; just as it should be.
I suppose I could roll down my window and give them the finger or shout at them, but why bother. They want attention. Don't give it to them.
Fred Phelps would be better served mellowing out. He is right faggots will have explaining to do including me. I can't help the way I am but that doesn't mean I am immune to God's wrath and judgement. I hope I don't die in a bad way but I won't blame God if I do cuz I am going against His entire plan of how humans are to behave.
I found Phelps' GOD HATES FAGS site, and sent an e-mail of general bewilderment. I was seeking a possibly simple answer. The following is a copy of my letter and Fred's response. Get a laugh or two out of it. I did.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Letter:
Dear Westboro Baptist Church,
I found your web page through general web browsing, and I just have a few inquiries. How is it that every facit of this ministry shows no inkling respect? I want to believe there is Good in every Christian faith, and cannot grasp why there are such drastic lines between them. Likewise, I want to understand where all the hate and rage in your church emanates from. From what I've read, learned, and encountered in my time of existence, it's become more than apparent that every human being, despite affiliation, is deserving of an understood human respect; even if that person is a non-Christian or defies your ministry's ideals, shouldn't it just be left at that? Why write hateful and often inaccurate things about others? Some people deserve to die? It seems masochistic. The things written on this site defy every ethical principal I've ever stood for concerning treating others justly. I'm only asking these questions because of the incredibly radial literature your church produces. How does one come to such extreme opinions and lifestyles, and how does this hate translate into love? Granted I'm not Baptist, but I want to understand. As an active, thinking, and participating Roman Catholic, my understanding of this life is completely different. Please write back if possible.
Concerned,
Bennett
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Response:
This isn't "Dear Abby", Bennett. If you were the least bit "concerned", you'd shut your blasphemous mouth and pick up and ACTUALLY READ a Bible.
Where did you get the idea that we are to "respect" others? (Your definition of respect, of course, means to "live and let live", and not mention a peep of warning to anyone about their sins.)
Identify ONE inaccurate thing we have written about others.
Absolutely, some people deserve to die. GOD SAID THEY ARE "WORTHY OF DEATH"; what does that mean, oh concerned one?
One comes to these opinions and lifestyles by reading the Bible. We are to live sober, righteous and godly in these last days, in this sinful and adulterous generation. (Again, exact quotes from the Bible, which you would recognize if you were truly concerned.)
God says we are to "love thy neighbor as thyself". Jesus said this is the greatest commandment. This is the duty that I owe you, and you owe me. God defined this duty right where he said it, to wit: Leviticus 19:17-18; that way, you don't have to guess at what it means. It means to rebuke your neighbor early, often and openly for his sins. If you do not do this, you show that you hate your neighbor in your heart. You, Bennett, hate your neighbor. You have failed miserably in your duty to me and all others living with you today. I will not fail in my duty to you.
All your words change exactly nothing. God still hates fags, and he still hates America. Deal with it. Your definitions of love and hate are defective -- they are man-made, like your religion. And, your end is hell.
Now, before you barf into cyberspace again, SHUT UP, read every word of www.godhatesfags.com, www.godhatesamerica.com and www.hatemongers.com, BE QUIET, read it all again, TRY NOT TO SPEAK.
Thanks for writing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm glad he was at least civil. Anyway, there's my story. Logic is just beyond this wounded, scared, and insecure man. It's just sad that his ignorance and intolerance are done in God's name, and now he's made a national scene out of doing so. I can feel the love. Truly.