As a half-Bright, I'm not sure God made women at all. If he did, though, it must have been on purpose, probably as some elaborate practical joke.

Insert crude comment about your need for sexual congress here.

Well Dean, this coming from a woman of Faith.

I do believe God made woman to be a help mate

God was real nice to give us a rib from a man. Yes, that was to give us a reminder again that we were to be a help mate. And that man was strong and to honor that.

Let's see, right so far?

Then we, us women decided to go into the beautiful garden and eat some beautiful fruit. An apple.

Man did not do that. Woman went in and plucked the apple. She brought the apple to man thinking she would be....what? yep...helpmate.

Oops! That was a no, no! Now helpmate bares lots and lots and lots of pain to have child for her man so she can be...helpmate...

I think God used both Dean. He used nature to make this beautiful planet, the trees, the rain, the sunshine and the beauty of the sensual feelings of sexual intercouse to have our children. Why just look at Adam and Eve in the beautiful garden, and all the majesty of the awe inspiring gifts of nature for them and them alone! Eve, the lovely helpmate pleasing her man.

Now with that being said!

NOW TURN AROUND AND ASK ROSEMARY, YOU WIFE WHEN SHE IS GRABBING YOUR EARS AND PULLING YOUR LIPS DOWN TO YOUR KNEES WHEN SHE IS GIVING BIRTH TO YOUR NEXT CHILD IF GOD MADE WOMEN ON PURPOSE!!!

I guess I don't find this funny because there is enough savagery toward women in this world. Sorry if you find this comment too PC, but that's what I think.

Isn't that Updike you're quoting?

It's Jack Nicholson's soliloquy from near the end of "The Witches of Eastwick." Or a close paraphrase of part of it.

The vast majority of victims of violence are men, Karine. Men live shorter lives, are tortured more often, beaten more often, killed more often. And when they are beaten or raped, they are more often laughed at, as if they deserved it.

If you don't know that, then you're sadly misinformed.

Do you have any sons? If not, I hope you have some someday.

Dean

Just a reaction to your comment to Karine.
I have learned to weep often for the pain and
hurt men go through. Our society expects a lot of them and also judges them severly if they
mess up. I have a little boy in my life who is
so sweet and loving it just makes me ache. Some times I try to picture him as a man and I want so much to make sure he is always loved and appreciated and he lives with honor and respect. It would kill me if his life didn't turn out well. I think he will be okay but I still worry.

I mention this because since this little boy wrapped me around his finger 12 years ago, I have come to see the opposite sex in a very kindly light. I love my husband more and mourn my dead father more. This has been a major change in my emotional life as from the age of 5 or 6 boys were the bane of my life and I grew up not really knowing what males were all about except as tormentors. I realized in my thirties that I'd not been thinking of men as the same species. They truly were from Mars as far as I knew. After this revelation, I have gradually
become quite fond of most of the males in my life and have learned that even the grumpy ones have a lovable side to them. I am friends with men now...all thanks to my precious nephew.

Even more importantly I recognized that these lovable (well a LOT of them are but not ALL) male people were sometimes destined to be blown up in war, be killed doing a dangerous civilian job, protect our society from criminals and forest fires (one died yesterday), house fires, and a whole host of other acts of bravery at great personal risk and sacrifice. I guess I can forgive the faults and imperfections of men
and hope that they will forgive us women for our faults and imperfections. Truly I think we could dispense with the militant ladies (I'm hesitant to use the "feminist term" less somebody decides to bitch slap me) at this point. Enough already. Lets stop the war on all sides.

Oh, yeah. He did it to you on purpose, and you should thank him for it every single day.

This was a funny post and I surely meant for the above story I wrote to Dean to be funny, and to be taken that way. I love men as well. I have a son that just got out of a very abusive relationship that really tormented him.

What was especially hard, is he is a Federal Officer. She beat on him, slashed up his new jeep and of course local police were called in. He never ever hit her and went to counseling to try to help, to no avail. He is out of that relationship and doing well. Dean he read your post on battered men.

There is bad on both sides and I think this post was meant to be funny and I think what Jonathan said about the witches of Eastwick was great!

Jane, I had the same reaction 13 years ago, when my son was born. Suddenly I looked at men, not as grown men, but some mother's little boy, whom she loved, cuddled and adored.

Their mommies wanted for their sons exactly what I want for mine.

What's not to love?

And, Dean, of course it isn't an accident. Who's gonna bake the cookies if there aren't women around?

Janelle

Your post was very funny. I enjoyed the ending A LOT

Mrs Du Toit

It's amazing what a beautiful child will do for
your outlook on life.

Once upon a time, before I had a son, and I used to hear men tell jokes about women I would get upset too. Then, of course I'd laugh when women would tell jokes about men. Then, that evolved into the holier-than-thou, "Well, all people on earth are birthed by women." Then, one day, when I had a particularly nasty day that was brightened by the sound of my son's laughter I realized that in order to have given birth to this miraculous creature, I also needed the equal assistance of his father.

Oops--there went the mighty out of my holy. Darn.

My son has taught me not only a love of the male of the species, but has also given me a deeper understanding of what it means to be female and a mother. Yin and yang.

Sometimes when I bump into, "Why are they like that (male people)?" and I can look at it as truly a question instead of an annoyance, I get to see why I'm like this.

Humor is vital, of course.

Have you ever been running a few minutes late for work and stopped at a light in traffic? The light changes to green but the car in front of you doesn't move. You know exactly why too. The driver's visor is down, you can see a little bit of the person's head above the seat. They are reaching for something near their eye. No. Something didn't fall in their eye. They are putting on make-up. In traffic. On their way to work. Holding everyone up behind them.

And who wrote The Witches of Eastwick. Anyone, anyone?

The ability to shop for things that no one in their right mind would care about is astounding.

I once had, well, several times this had happened, but an ex spent a good part of her time and money decorating our apartment.

She was then out of money. I supported us for eight months, as the stuff in our apartment accumulated and accumulated.

This was her concept of "sharing finances."

It worked well with gambling too. When I won, she lost. When I lost, she lost.

But man could she cook.

From the rules for last week's what-women-hate thread:

1) Only females (or gay males) are allowed to answer this question. All other responses will be deleted without prejudice.

Of course, the women don't feel that they're subject to the converse rule in our thread. Indeed, they appear to NOT be.

Figures. :rolleyes:

Women don't say what they mean, but you are supposed to understand them.

Women want to tell you all their problems, but you are supposed to just listen, and not offer any advice on how they could fix their problems.

Women gossip about anything that breathes.

Women will tell you 5 times on trash-day, to not forget to put the trash out, despite the fact that you have not forgotten to put the trash out on trash-day, in the last 20 years.

And still, guys want them around.

To Blowback:

Women don't say what they mean, but you are supposed to understand them.

I don't remember where I heard it, but I watch out for it and I live by it: "Give me what I want, not what I ask for."

Women want to tell you all their problems, but you are supposed to just listen, and not offer any advice on how they could fix their problems.

Perhaps she knows you can fix the problem, so you don't have to prove that to her; right now she just needs your loving, eyes-on-her attention.

Women gossip about anything that breathes.

It is a shame they put such limits on their gossip.

Women will tell you 5 times on trash-day, to not forget to put the trash out, despite the fact that you have not forgotten to put the trash out on trash-day, in the last 20 years.

. . . because they reminded you on trash day, right? Okay, maybe it's a tic, a little need. Someone -- a child, a wife, a husband -- doesn't always need the glass of water before bedtime, they just need you to be holding it.

To be honest, I need the reminders. I am the most absent-minded person on the planet at times.

> To be honest, I need the reminders. I am the
> most absent-minded person on the planet at times.

I'll vouch for that. Dean is a idiot. He needs a daily smack upside the head.

But then, so do I.

Bill

OK, I'll weigh in.

Let me contextualize by saying I love women. But many women have two exemplary behaviors that are annoying:

1. Many women think it's not enough if you apologize and make restitution -- you have a suffer.

2. Many women think, "I was being selfish" constitutes an excuse for bad behavior.

FWIW.

Ooops, sorry. I didn't realize this was the "what I hate about women week." I won't say a peep more. It's your turn, guys.

jane -

Don't leave. I don't know a man who doesn't want to understand women better. Swing out for all you're worth. Real men can take it.

(in no particular order)

Lanny, you said "Of course, the women don't feel that they're subject to the converse rule in our thread. Indeed, they appear to NOT be.

Figures. :rolleyes:"

Um, you did see that Dean said that everyone was invited, yes? :)

Dean, on that note; don't you think it's just a wee bit sexist to limit the "Why I Hate Men" thread to women/gays, but open the "Why I Hate Women" thread to all and sundry?

...Things that make you go "Hmmmm..." :)

Janelle: loved your first post; did you ever see Nine Months with Hugh Grant and Julianne Moore?

(for those who missed it, it also features Robin Williams, Jeff Goldblum, Tom Arnold, and Joan Cusack!)

Near the end of the movie, Cusack is in labor while her husband (Arnold) is videotaping it. It's been a while since I watched it, but there was a bit where Arnold is prompting her to smile at the camera (or something equally asinine) when she grabs him by the face, and voices a maniacal hatred of all sperm-bearers.

Ok, I'm not telling it well. It's hysterical. :)

Blowback: ask Dean for a link that addresses most of the issues you raised. :)

Jerome: amen! I don't sweat the little stuff. In fact, a little fussing from a woman makes me feel like I'm getting some special attention... :)

What do I hate about women? Hard to say. I honestly believe in the old saying "behind every successful man, there's a good woman." To coin a phrase, no man is an island. :)

I suppose one thing that irks me is the (to me) large proportion of women who fixate on money, or success, in a man.

Let me go back a bit: a few years ago, Sally Jesse Raphael hosted a show discussing how "modern women can't find men" or some such. What struck me was that, when Ms. Raphael asked the women for a list of desirables (sense of humor, considerate, etc.) nearly every damn one of them finished with "and he has to be a professional."

Crikeys! So a lot of modern women are looking for men that are smart, considerate, have a sense of humor, etc., etc., and are rich in the bargain!!?

I mean, that just tears it for me. What else do they want, the guy to be packing a John Holmes, too!?

To me that's in the same category as guys who want someone who looks (and screws) like Christina Aguilara, but the expect her to be faithful at the same time... Krikey.

Um, you did see that Dean said that everyone was invited, yes? :)

Yeah. I wasn't really complaining about the women commenting, but that was my way of saying one thing I hate about women: They expect to operate under different rules than men (even while they complain when rules are different for a good reason), and far too often they're allowed to.

Then there's the large percentage of women who use admirable womanly guises --- "I want a family," "Being a mother would be the most rewarding job ever," etc --- to try to get as many men as possible to hop into bed with them.

Of course, I hate the same thing about a large percentage of men, who are the ones who make women so cynical about us that I can't even hold the door open for one without getting a scowl and/or a restraining order.

I hate everyone, really. Women for being conniving, deceitful, coarse little creatures, and men for making them that way.

And vice versa.

You can hold the door for me, Lanny. I'll even smile at you, and thank you for doing so.

Okay, well I guess it IS okay if I add another comment. I hope (since I originally didn't realize what this post was about - duh!) that I was being actually supportive and nice about men because I really DO like men (sometimes more than
I like women but not all the time) I had a hard time finding anything to complain about when it was our turn last week. I love to have a door held open for me or allowed to exit the elevator
before polite gentlemen. I guess I've reached an age that I can live and let live when it comes to relationships between the sexes. (But please, no violence is allowed be either sex.) I spent a lot of years in my life feeling uncomfortable with men. Fortunately, insightful
female as I am, I got over it but it took some work.

Of course women are annoying sometimes. This is earth, not heaven.

Oops. Dean's a "bright," and doesn't believe in heaven.

That must really suck. ;-)

Since we're all invited (tee hee) I was just thinking--maybe the Mrs. du toit, Jane, Janelle and the other women could comment here too--I have women friends whom I like, one or two that I really like. I have men friends that I like, and several that I absolutely adore--not sexually, but as people in general. Then there's my hubby who's just the best.

As people, I actually prefer most men even though some women understand me better and can be more nurturing at times. When I have had men as really good friends in my life, they are more loyal, funnier, easier to just hang out with and a lot less demanding than my women friends. It has been a lot harder to find really good women friends since I moved. I admire men's ability to make friends and place friendship high on their priority list.

I hate women's pettiness. What do you think about women and friendship vs. men and friendship?

They take themselves a bit too seriously sometimes. Their legitimate reply: "Stop acting like an idiot".

shep:

Who sez yer acting!? (running and ducking for cover)

Sorry, bro, I couldn't resist that one... :)

I never made that claim, Casey, she does. Good one.

As a woman myself, I would like to comment that I don't necessarily find myself attracted to rich men, but men that could provide for a family. Any guy I'd think about marrying would have to be able to feed and clothe my children. I'm not saying he has to be Bill Gates (there's a mechanic I know that I find *quite* attractive) but he has to demonstrate to me he's hard-working, responsible, economical and capable of making wise decisions about his money. Rich men seem to me to have those qualities more than poor men because, obviously, SOMETHING they were doing worked. Of course, wealth as an indicator of these qualities may be misleading: what's-his-name, the Enron guy, is not the perfect example of a good husband, whereas my mechanic friend would make a WONDERFUL husband and father. So, do I look for wealth in potential mates? Yes, but it's only one of several other important qualities, not to be emphasized more than integrity or kindness.

WOW how exciting. I came across this website on a random search for hot chicks. That just goes to show you how productive the internet really is. I felt like I had to add my 2 cents in for this conversation, which I happen to find in my savings account.

The bottom line is... women love the game PERIOD!!! Men cannot be themselves anymore. I've been seeing a few girls from New York City where I live, and the only reason why we have casual sex every weekend is because they don't know who I really am in the inside. And why should she know anyway??? Women love bullshitters. Honesty is failer. And remember this one guys. We turn women into cold-hearted cynics. If you come across these types, stay away from them. It's a sign of abusive ex-boyfriend syndrome. Thanks for reading.

Womanizer :)