You write beautifully. I chuckled several times.

hln

Maybe it's part of my widespread set of prejudices. Which I never bother to hide. It was a Greek who owned the two-bit hash-house in Chicago where my wife Stefi worked when she came here as a foreign student in the late '60s. The bastard cheated her on her pay and I had to threaten him with action at the local state's attorney's office in Chicago. Let's just say they leave a bad taste in my mouth.

But Ariana Stassinopoulos Huffington is another outstanding reason that, among all the European peoples, I have learned over a long lifetime to trust Greeks the least.

Depending on whom she was wedded to at any given moment, or which bankwagon she could crawl onto, her politics seem to have shifted from one end of the spectrum to the other.

The news that this women -- one of the richer in California from what I understand -- pays little or no taxes is hardly a surprise. As a small-time businessman I would try to do the same if I could get away with it.

But Stassinopoulos-Huffington makes such hot and heavy wind about corporate tax cheats, and sounds off so continuously about "democracy" in all of its variegated ramifications, that one wonders why she doesn't boogie on over to the cashier's window at which folks pay to help the less fortunate.

I'm not sure what she wants, other than an adoring audience. To which I am reminded of what a great carnival promoter said in the late 19th century.

"There's a sucker born every minute."

But I'm not one of them.

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI

Yea, before you get all outraged, there's hardly anything unusual about cyclical, freelance swings. This year she signed a 1M book deal (which is what her 'business' is about) and will pay accordingly (like she did the year she contracted for her previous book).

Meanwhile this whole thing came up a month ago in the LA Times which got the data wrong. I'm sure you know that you don't pay tax on what you are worth, just what you make so the $7M house from her divorce settlement is irrelevant -- except for the fact that she paid state property tax, something the LA Times piece failed to mention. (She also paid state and federal employee taxes, more data missing from the Times.)

Having said that, do you really think there is no difference between a freelance writer who takes a loss one year and a huge profit the next and a coporation that pays out millions of dollars to political parties just to avoid paying 10s of millions in taxes? OK, to each his/her own...

I've thought for years that Huffington was a complete moron, ever since I saw her do that stupid thing called "Odd Bedfellows" on Bill Maher's old show back in 1996. She sat around talking about how wonderful Ken Starr was and how much she hoped Bob Dole would beat Bill Clinton. She irritated me not because of her position so much as the fact that she couldn't say anything intelligent in defense of it.

Then she had a Road to Damascus experience, and began hawking a Ralph Nader-style message--and in just as shallow and stupid a way as she spouted Republican party-line drivel.

Bleah. What a maroon.

Ha. Okay, Arnold, so you don't like Greeks and Arabs. Who do you like? :-)

Ariana Huff-n-Puff is a country club Republican who found a new schtick. She and Arnold should get together and go bowling.

If Huffy really cared about poor old folks she'd sell that freaking house, donate the money to the poor and move to Reseda.

Ariana Huff-n-Puff is a country club Republican who found a new schtick. She and Arnold should get together and go bowling.

If Huffy really cared about poor old folks she'd sell that freaking house, donate the money to the poor and move to Reseda.

Victor:

When I'm outraged you'll know it. I'm not. I'm amused. And am amusing others with my wit. Since you are obviously so defensive that excuse making is your number one priority you must be one of those enlightened liberals that only sees hypocrisy and evil when a Republican is involved.

I know what income taxes are and I also know that you don't pay on your worth only on what you earn. That said, I find her bleeding heart "I feel your pain" crap a little disingenuous. And that finger pointing a little hypocritical. Because she stated quite clearly that tax cheats are robbing the poor and bankrupting California. Meanwhile she uses the exact same loopholes to pay little or no tax at all.

My main point is this: running a business that has $400K plus in expenses with much less coming in is just bad budgeting.

That isn't gonna help California.

You don't like her, that's cool. You think she is disengenuous because nobody rich can posibly be sensitive to the needy (?), that's a matter of subjective opinion that you haven't really demonstrated.

"you must be one of those enlightened liberals that only sees hypocrisy and evil when a Republican is involved" This is complete conjecture based on.... what again?

She lost $400k last year and made a $1 million this year, that's a net profit of $600. That's a fact, not an excuse (and California could certainly benefit from that kind of budgeting.)

She paid state taxes and you said she didn't, those are two facts, not excuses.

You are not outraged, you are witty. I stand corrected.

I am being defensive. I will have to work on that.

Dean, not necessarily in this order, and not necessarily excluding others...

1) Texans with good blogsites. (That's why I got you the beer for your birthday.)

2) Croatians who can cook. (One reason I married Stefi back in 1972.)

3) Japs. (Best cars in the world these days. Good computer peripherals, too. Know how to keep their damned mouths shut, look, listen and learn from the world, then improve on it.)

4) Chinese. (Finest film dramas ever. Good chow, even if I can't eat much of that stuff anymore. Tough people, good businessmen. Crummy gamblers, though.)

5) Scots-Irish. (These were the hardrock protestants who settled and built America more or less from scratch, scrabbling for a livig along all the edges of the successive American frontiers. People with the right stuff.)

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI

Arnold:

Have you noticed something else about your list? With the possible exception of Croatia (not extensively familiar with Croatian history), all of those groups are nasty in a fight.

Coincidence? I think not! :)

I'm surprised you don't have Austrialians included... Heh.

victor:

You obviously miss one of the major points of Rose's post, and that's Huff'n'Blow's blatant hypocricy about taxes, and helping the poot.

Point here being: 99.9% of private businesses don't piss and moan about helping the poor out of one side of their mouths, while ducking under tax shelters out of the other side. To mix metaphors just a bit. :)

And, no, I don't see the situation in black & white; there are dishonest businesses (and businesspeople), as in every group. Most businesspeople are honest and law-abiding, as are most people in general.

Perhaps you might consider the problems businesses face (especially small ones; the majority) if you looked at how severely they are taxed. They get royally screwed every year, compared to individuals.

"You obviously miss one of the major points of Rose's post, and that's Huff'n'Blow's blatant hypocricy about taxes, and helping the poot [sic]."

sigh.

She paid more than $150,000 in taxes over the period in question. The press articles are just wrong. If you don't believe that there is nothing more to say about it.

She has never, ever said that deductions are, in and of themselves evil or an constitute abuse of the system or equated deductions with loopholes. She has made a career out of pointing out real abuses in the system by huge corporations that can afford (because they are making enormous profits) to buy politicians and laws. I don't know how she feels about SMB because she hasn't much (or anything?) about that. The quote above is about "tax cheats" and you seem to be drawing a conclusion that she must therefore be anti-small-honest-businessman... based on what?

She may well be a flaming hypocrite and a lot of other lousy things (certainly publicity hungry, hyper-ambitious and somewhat callous based on my observations). I definitely question what kind of governor she would make because of her lack of management experience. I don't honestly know. But I don't see her hypocrisy based on this discussion. What I do see is racism and xenophobia passed off as cute and lots of sophmoric name calling passed off as witty. If that means I "missed the point" then I'm still there, missing the point.

oh, btw, even in years of loss the tax returns in question show that she gave 25% of her income to charity -- presumably some of that to help the poor. I don't know about you guys, but that's quite a bit more than I gave (or would give if I took a $200,000 loss).

But there I go, being defensive. Like I said, I'm trying to work on it...

Casey,

The Croatians have a fine military history going back more than a thousand years. Croats were some of the leading fighters in the Austrian armies before 1918 and played a key role in wars to hold back two major Ottoman invasions of central Europe in the 16th and 17th centuries. In modern times, a handful of Croatian volunteers in a special unit called HOS (Hrvatska Odbranbene Snage, or Croatian Defense Force) held up the Jugoslav National Army (JNA) at Vukovar in eastern Croatia, long enough for the newly-independent country to organize a proper army. Meantime, Vukovar was destroyed around them, and the Serbs in a JNA auxiliary unit called "Arkan's Tigers and commanded by the notorious killer Zeljko Raznatovic murdered significant numbers of the Croatian fighter whom they captured in the ruins. More than a little like the last stand of the Jewish fighters in the Warsaw ghetto in 1943 under assault by the Nazi SS. Tough people, the Croats? You bet your ass. They live in a tough neighborhood of Europe.

The Aussies? They are in fact very fine folk, even if -- according to their pronunciations of English -- they wash their faces in something that according to our pronunciation thumps around on the great plains of the west (basin vs bison). On the other hand, getting an opportunity to talented and fine-looking Austrialian actors and actresses such as Sam Neill, Naomi Watts, Nicole Kidman, Radha Mitchell and numerous others lightens my day at senior citizen discount matinee time at the local multiplex. Nor can I forget the fine role that Australian armed forces played side by side with their American comrades in every war since 1918. So add 'em in with the mix.

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI

Victor:

I am racist and a xenophobe?

Am I reading that right? or were you referring to someone besides me?

Her business took the loss not Arianna personally. Are you saying that she personally gave 25% of her income to charity or her business gave to charity? Perhaps she just pulled that charity money out of her fat bank account. That might help offset the interest income she earned -I mean people never use charity for tax breaks - EVER!

Because those are two entirely different things.

She paid more than $150,000 in taxes over the period in question. The press articles are just wrong. If you don't believe that there is nothing more to say about it.

How? Where? Property tax - is that what you are talking about? Big deal. Everyone pays that and that has zilch to do with income and all to do with property.

Everyone that owns property pays that and I know several that are struggling to pay that and those same people paid a heck of a lot more than $700 bucks in federal income tax and have a heck of a lot less coming in than Ms. Huffington.

I find her annoying. That doesn't make me a racist. It makes me human.

I'm not sure where the rest of the conversation is headed -- I've read her books and her tax returns and you keep insisting on making up facts (she declared than $200 in interest income) and suppositions (what "fat bank account" are you talking about??) as a way of trying to convince me that she is a hypocrite (?)

For the record, yes she paid property tax and lots of employer payroll tax. In fact the vast majority of her expenses went to paying the people that work for her, doing research for her book, booking lectures along with a bevy of distastful LA rich-girl stuff. None of the charity is deductible because, of course, she had no taxable income.

Hypocrisy would be if she dontated money to a politician in the hopes of getting that politician to vote a certain way on LA rich-girl deductions because in fact, that goes to the heart of her clean money campaign agenda; not SMBs that take a loss one year with deductions and make a profit and pay taxes the next.

Maybe what confuses you is when she uses words like "fat cat" as a short-cut sound bite to represent the corruption in our political system that some would argue is an expression of free speech but Huffington calls 'legalized bribery' by multi-billion corps (aka 'fat cats'). I find her annoying, yet I agree with her 100%. (In fact I was ready to vote for McCain in 2000 for the same reason.)

You find her annoying? Lots of people do. That doesn't make her a hypocrite or make your case that she is.

Meanwhile "I have learned over a long lifetime to trust Greeks the least" strikes me as a racist, xenophobic comment trying to pass as cute. No?

Victor,

"Meanwhile "I have learned over a long lifetime to trust Greeks the least" strikes me as a racist, xenophobic comment trying to pass as cute. No?"

No. "Cute" strikes me as the last thing in the world that Arnold would ever intend.

victor:
I was going make another attempt to actually communicate with you, but you lost me with that bit about:
"What I do see is racism and xenophobia passed off as cute and lots of sophmoric name calling passed off as witty."

WTF?? Whoops, I see you are referring to Arnold's comments (excuse me for the familiarity, Mr. Harris{g}). Well, it's obvious you don't know Mr. Harris very well. While he rather qualifies as a curmudgeon, he is definitely not a racist or a xenophobe, if you knew him, or even actually bothered to read his posts in this thread...

Arnold:
Thanks for the pointers on Croatian history. Yet even more excuses to bury myself in good history books! (wry grin)

I am reminded of General Vandergrift's remark that, in a mix-it-up fight, he'd rather have an Aussie at his back than anyone else.

And let us not forget the latest contribution, Hugh Jackman! Heh.

Victor,

Casey described me correctly. Not a racist at all. But a culturalist? All the way.

In other words:

Koreans, Chinese and Japs are all members of the same race, more or less. But the historical development of these three people are separate and led to distinctive cultures. Each have their separate charactistics which people may find admirable, disgusting, or draw no reaction at all, depending on the viewer's own culture.

Same as with black africans and their north American, Caribbean and European relatives. Cultures among these peoples wildly differ even though their race is more or less homogeneous.

Why, therefore, would these generalizations not be true of white Europeans as well?

Anyway, if you get your jollies by loving everyone without distinction, that's fine for you. I don't.

On the other hand, I'm not particularly sensitive to criticism. So if you want to think ill of me because a greater-than-usual percentage of Greeks I came across slyly tried to rip me or someone close to me, and because, therefore, I no longer trust these people, that's okay too. I call 'em the way I see 'em.

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI

I am convinced. It is, in fact, not trying to pass as cute.

I'm not surprised that you would you not be particularly sensitive to criticism, Arnold. It's not in your culture to be questioned. I guess Rosemary is of a different culture? I have a lot to learn about how this culture thing works, thanks for trying to explain it to me.

To recap:

Arianna can't be trusted because:
-- she didn't pay taxes (even though she did)
-- she is annoying
-- I'm just making excuses
-- I only look for Republican hypocrites
-- I'm missing the point
-- she has a big fat bank account (somewhere, off shore probably)
-- she doesn't give a shit about the poor
-- she only gave $50,000 to charity in order to offset $189 of interest income
-- she's a moroon
-- she criticizes corporate thieves
-- I'm defensive
-- I don't bother to read other posts
-- she can't say anything intelligent in defense of her position

all of which is irrelevant because:
-- you just can't trust those Greeks.

It's been a treat everybody. Enjoy your week.

And I take it back, you guys are cute! But in a curmudgeony kind of way!

Some people evidently have no sense of humor.

To me (no joke, either), the most relevant Huffington numbers look something like this:

Income: $183,000
Corporate federal income tax: $0
Personal federal income tax: $0

I make less than a third of that income, have more dependents, and paid much more income tax than Huffington did. If that doesn't scream "corporate fat cat", then I don't know what does.

Victor:

I take your point about her expenses exceeding her income in a given calendar year. If her next-year's income taxes are proportionately higher then that will blunt this criticism.

The two major problems I have with her are:

1) She's a flake, as demonstrated by her political reversal, and;
2) Any rich person who believes we should do more for "the poor" should lead by the example of spending him-/herself into poverty, then coming to the rest of us for money. That sequence is extremely important to maintain.

If that doesn't scream "corporate fat cat", then I don't know what does.

I agree. You don't know what does.

Victor, my wife thinks I'm cute, and her's is about the only opinion in the world I'm really interested in. Because at 55 she combines a brilliant mind with a slim, beautiful body that makes men turn their heads and makes most of the young girls at our fitness center look like pork dumplings on legs.

(She thinks I'm getting even cuter, because I worked off 33 lbs in the past 11 months, 28 of them in the past 106 days. But that's her subjective opinion.)

About whether being questioned is in my culture. Depends who's doing the questioning and what about.

People who show up for our submachine gun matches; come to the start position with their equipment ready; magazines loaded and with an appropriate competition attitude; shoot the field courses without bitching out the range officers (I'm one of them); and get their gear stowed properly when they're done -- these kind of people can ask me whatever the hell they want. They can cuss me out all they want, too, when the match is over. Just so they stick around to help clean up the gun range when we're done for the day. I bond easily with lots of folks, but it helps if they like guns. Life can be beautiful if you have the kind of fun that folks like us have.

About this stuff of not trusting Greeks. How many times have you every heard anyone discussing "French-Canadian cunning"? Or who used the aphorism "Beware of Norwegians bearing gifts"?

Don't you see? This whole thing is part of the western European culture that we largely inherited over here, and took off with.

Anyway, Victor, who says I can't be occasionally serious and occasionally funny, occasionally at the same time? It's a free country, isn't it?

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI

Victor:

What fat bank account?

You are right - I made that up. Actually I assumed (which could be a huge mistake) that she has a bank account and there is a lot of money in it. Because you said that she paid $150,000 in taxes. I'm guessing that you meant property tax. I do not sympathize and that doesn't count.

********

Now, if someone makes $183,000 and expenses of $410,363 and has a net loss of $259,549 ... well then where would she have come up with $150,000 to pay her property taxes from, if not, said bank account? Are telling me that poor misunderstood woman has no liquid cash on hand ... none from her divorce settlement?

If those aren't property taxes you are talking about, well, she would still have to pay property tax on a 7 million dollar home - most people use money out of their bank accounts to do that.

Everyone pays property tax on their property (that goes to the state not the federal government & that isn't State income tax either...). If you want to hang on to a lavishly expensive home you will pay the tax on it. That isn't the same thing as PERSONAL INCOME TAX. And Corporation Income tax isn't the same thing as PERSONAL INCOME TAX.

I am not confusing her personal income with that of her business which are two separate things entirely - are you?

I used to own my own business. We paid Coporate taxes, Personal income taxes and (GASP) Property taxes. I paid out a hell of lot more in personal and corporate tax than she did and I made a helluva lot less. So, I do not weep for her plight.

******
You said, She lost $400k last year and made a $1 million this year, that's a net profit of $600. That's a fact, not an excuse (and California could certainly benefit from that kind of budgeting.)

Let me try to explain this way. I gonna round figures here for my convenience. She made $200K, spent $400K and had a loss of $200K last year.
This year she earned $1 Million, spent???, so we can't say what her net gain is until we find out her expenses, see?

Her pattern of out-spending her earnings isn't a good indicator for what will become of her million but at this point it is a wait and see. You can't say she has a net gain of $600K until we know what she actually spends this year.

You also said, Having said that, do you really think there is no difference between a freelance writer who takes a loss one year and a huge profit the next and a coporation that pays out millions of dollars to political parties just to avoid paying 10s of millions in taxes?

That is what made me say that you would only recognize the hypocrisy if it was a Republican. You also suggested that the term fat-cat confused me. It doesn't.I am not so easily confused. Ms. Huff used to be a fat-cat according to her definition and yours and as far as I can see she still is. Those are super secret target "evil" Republican cliches. I will promise to reserve further judgement until she pays taxes on that million...okay.

So call me cute, call me witty, call me cynical. Just don't call me...cuz I'm married! ;-)

Hey Rosemary, thanks for (finally) taking the matter seriously. I have a lot of respect for this site and what you and Dean have written about. It was disappointing to be so roundly shouted down for disagreeing with a post and bringing more facts to the table.

Are telling me that poor misunderstood woman has no liquid cash on hand ... none from her divorce settlement?

She is not poor, she seems to be misunderstood (a lot) and she got no cash in the settlement. She got the house and child support (a lot of child support) -- but no cash. She actually works for a living.

so we can't say what her net gain is until we find out her expenses...You can't say she has a net gain of $600K until we know what she actually spends this year.

I completely agree, all we have to go on is what she says -- that freelance writing is cyclical which is completely and totally reasonable -- not every writer signs a book deal every year.

If I have conflated the different taxes (personal, property, corporate) she paid or haven't paid it has been in a specific context for a specific point -- iow, in an effort to clarify, not confuse. Sorry if I did the latter.

Now on property tax -- we may be talking past each other... Arnold Schwarzenegger hired Warren Buffet (an honest-to-god fat-cat) who immediately advised Arnold that the property tax law in California is crooked and insane complaining that he wasn't paying enough (I think he pays less than Arianna.) Arnold told him to shut up but the point was made. Arianna is the only candidate I know of (except maybe Camejo) that has proposed updating Prop. 13 to fix the crazy loopholes that, in fact, lead directly to "thousands of elderly nursing home residents are facing the prospect of being tossed out on the street."

Now if you were to tell me that she didn't pay property tax, than I'd have serious, serious issues with her credibility.

Like I said, I have my doubts what kind of governor she would make but not because she can't manage her own finances.

I'm tired of trying to figure out who is a fat-cat and who isn't. All I was trying to say is that her agenda is about stopping money from distorting the democratic process. She is very, very sincere about this and I am too.

...will promise to reserve further judgement until she pays taxes on that million...okay.

If she doesn't pay personal income or corp. taxes again next year then I promise to drive you from Chicago to Brentwood and we will fry the bitch on a Greek rotisserie pit on her front lawn together.

So call me a fat-cat, call me humorless, call me a sucker for giving a shit. Just don't call me cute... cuz you'd be lying.