Here in the United States, at least in many states, our divorce laws are draconian toward men. I see it all the time, and it's genuinely sickening to see.
I have a friend who I'll call Frank. About a year ago his wife decided she was bored with him and got herself a new man. She filed for, and got, an immediate no-fault divorce. While they were married she frequently abused him physically, and he's got scars on his body that she gave him. But he was raised never to hit girls so he never hit her back--and also, like so many men, suffered in silence and humiliation, thinking there was something wrong with him. Like most men, he had no idea that this is far more common than most people think.
Because her family has money and his doesn't, she was able to get everything: the house, the furniture, and everything in it. She refused to even give him his clothes back.
She now forces the kids to call her new stud "daddy," and generally refuses to let Frank see them. However, the court is ordering him to pay such a large amount of child support, that he'll have less than $200 a week to live on. On that he must pay for rent, food, his car, and insurance. No lawyer will see him for less than $3,000 up front--money which he doesn't have. (Did I mention that the wife ran up all the credit cards and left him with the bill, too?)
The man has contemplated suicide and is in amazingly good shape for someone in such a state--and he's far from the first man I've seen in such circumstances. He's doing his best to try to stay sane, and doing an admirable job.
Can anyone help advise him on what to do, and where he might get some legal advice he's actually able to afford? He's here in Michigan.
(You guys didn't think that the Marriage Strike was a joke, did you? The situation for men in divorce in this country is truly horrible. The way no one seems to care only makes it worse.)
Looks like this might be a good place to start:
http://www.dadsdivorce.com/law/links.html
Dean you have already helped your friend in three ways so far..in being there, listening to him. Posting this was courageous(take this compliment, I know what I am saying here). And plugging into the blue highlighted words (sorry, can't think of what they are called). It makes more men and women aware of what is really going on.
Out of the hundreds and I know I am off on that,-hundreds and more programs of women that are abused and beaten I saw one television program about a woman beating her husband. The only reason I watched it is because I liked the actress. That program showed the man calling the womens abuse hotline several times and getting hung up on. He was desperate and finally got some help.
Dean I will check this site later today. Every word you posted was true and I pray a lot of people pass through your log and send some help.
Divorce laws are draconian towards people without the financial means, not gender. Good luck to him.
If he's going to commit suicide, he may as well be a suicide bomber.
No, Jane. They are especially draconian toward men. Our system is incredibly sexist that way, at least in most states. I'd suggest you follow a few of the links I've provided.
One constant issue I have with the Gender Feminists is their unwillingness to admit that there is even a problem here. There is one--as the Equity Feminists and the iFeminists are willing to acknowledge. Of course, they are often labeled as right-wing cranks and "anti-woman" as a result. Very predictably so.
Janelle: the text in blue is called a "hyperlink" or just plain "link" for short.
Do follow them. You will be surprised at what you find I think.
Seems to me your friend ought to be able to find a good lawyer who'll take his case without anything NEAR $3,000 up front; that's outrageous. Google for mens' rights groups in Michigan, that should turn up some leads- or leads to leads.
That's the good news.
The bad news is, I can't offer any other encouragement. None at all. My own experience consisted of sixteen years spent battling the malicious, incompetent idiots at our county Domestic Relations office who couldn't keep my account straight from month to month; fending off my ex-wife's incessant efforts- sometimes only a few months apart- to get more and more child support; fighting to keep her from thwarting my visitations with my sons; and struggling against a "family court" system that considers the payment of child support a father's Sacred Obligation, to be brutally enforced- yet reckons fathers utterly expendable and irrelevant in all other regards, including visitation.
The battle's over now; my children are both grown. We've survived with our relationship intact and healthy, no thanks to America's system of so-called "justice". But it was a horrible ordeal, and I fully understand why some men just give up and end it all- and why some others go berserk and lash out, destroying everything they once loved. And I also understand why others are refusing to get married in the first place.
A co-worker passed on to me something his Cessna mechanic once told him, "Son, I'll give you some advice: as a general rule in life, you can pretty well figure that if it floats, flies, or f*cks, it's almost always cheaper to rent."
Amen to that.
2 years ago my wife filed for divorce on me, after having me dispossesed and tossed out of our home (or I should say, MY home everything was in my name and signed for before we were maried) via a domestic violence act petition. Basically this says "I think he might hit me. He never has, nor has he threatened to, but, gee I think he might." he cops gave me less than 10 minutes to gather my clothes, and almost didn't let me take my friggin car. If I so much as called my 4 year old son on the phone before the hearing 3 weeks later, I would be locked up until that hearing WITHOUT BAIL. You can shoot someone and post bail. I got lucky. My wife and I went to counseling, and our marriage is pretty solid now (she finally got it through her head she was being an ass when even her own family ripped her a new one for taking my son away from me). I could not believe how the machinery of -cough- JUSTICE was all set up for a wife to completely screw over the husband without any proof of wrongdoing on his part whatsoever. All I can say is if anyone out there is engaged to be married, be very very careful who you slip that ring to.
Oh my, this is really awful! I can see the reason behind it - there are far more women to be protected than men - but that can't lead to this kind of law! Don't you have men's groups over there lobbying for some better and fairer laws?
Two friends in similiar situations, but miles further down the road: Now their children are in their teens. Both sets of children know EXACTLY what their mothers did, and they know that their fathers fought for them. That made all the difference to those children, the difference between them believeing they were worth nothing or believing they were worth everything. Yeah, its hard. And its not fair. And not to be an organizational freak, but start documenting ASAP. Every court paper, every lawyer meeting notes, every phone call (keep a log), every certified letter signed for or returned (once a month if you can afford it). If you're not into organization, get a big box and just dump papers in. Because someday you're going to need to be able to PROVE you didn't just walk away, probably about your child's 18th birthday.
You got some nice peple who cared, that is great. Thanks for reminding me those blue things were hyperlinks-dah---
Dave, I got a kick out of your co-workers mechanic, funny but sadly true in a quirky kinda way sometimes. I was a 17 yr. old single mom working for Cessna and low and behold fast forward after sometime later-- it was a Cessna 172 I did my first solo flight in, hence the mechanic story.
Allison that is great advice.
One day at a time, some times just hour by hour hang in there dear friend...
Dean, ok I'm a gender feminist. Rolls eyes and departs.
Sexism is sexism, Jane.
Sorry to see ya go, but if you can't even admit there might possibly be a problem here...
Richard Bennett at Omphalos is involved in a fathers' rights group and would be a good source of help for your friend. I've seen horror stories in both directions -- bad husband and bad wife -- but a key seems to be that the spouse who can't afford a lawyer is screwed by the spouse who can. Your friend probably should borrow money to hire a lawyer -- but ask Richard's opinion first.
Dean - I am in Ann Arbor, I am not an attorney, but, I know a couple here in town, who might help your friend out. Please e-mail me backchannel.
-Sid
there's a group i have a link to for the oregon chapter, http://www.peak.org/~jedwards/DADS.html and i think they have other ones.
Its weird how this all works. When my parents were divorced in the 70s, everything was pretty much left up to them to handle. My mom got me and my dad got, well, everything else.
My drummer, divorced and noncustodial father of two kids, got behind on his child support after losing a job. The solution by the courts? suspend his license and begin garnishing at 75%. I'm appalled. Seventy-five percent of his income- gone! One wife says in the last year she's seen maybe $100 of it, and the other maybe $200. Where's the freaking money going!?
dammit. that link appears to have gone 404 when i wasn't looking. ok but the organization is out there...
exactly the same thing happened to a friend last year. And despite what Jane Finch would like to have us believe, the system is designed to screw the father/husband caught up in this kind of an unfortunate situation. My friend survived this situation, and is a very sad man today.
Though, for your friend's heartless wife, she deserves a lawsuit. Your friend should formally divorce her, and then sue her for all the pain and anguish she has caused him. I bet the attorneys at Feiger Associates would love to take a case like this.
Oooo, The ole' eye roll!
Good one Jane. Witty, yet scathing.
Next time try one of my favorites: -Farts and stays-
The law is reaching so far to protect the helpless doves that a man may find himself in jail, evicted from his house, separated from kids, etc. only on a woman’s word.
I know that, like everything else, there are about the same number of men that need to be protected from and abusive partner as there are women. Interesting fact: lesbians abuse their partners at the SAME RATE as everyone else. If you think that women are the aggressors so infrequently that the law is right to presume the man’s guilt then you don't know enough people.
Here is another example of how sexists the laws can be, and how a man can become a Deadbeat Dad in three easy steps.
1. Child support is assessed in court, let’s say at 30% of dad's income.
2. Dad looses job and has to take another at a 50% cut in pay.
3. Dad still owes child support at the 30% rate of an income reduced by 50%.
Oh and you can forget getting it reduced. "Your Honor, despite my ex-wife's testimony, I don't want my children to eat dog food so I can buy a sports car."
My ears are burning, so a few points:
If the child support order is in line with state law, there's nothing to be done about it whether you have $3000 for a lawyer or not, so the first thing is to independently determine whether this is the case. All child support orders are computed by an income formula, and there's not a lot of wiggle room involved. As your income situation or custody arrangement changes, so can the child support order, but other than that it is what it is.
Michigan has a "Friend of the Court" like California's family law facilitator (CA modeled after MI) who can tell you for free what your order should be and help you with the papers if your order is incorrect. Adjustments aren't complicated and your friend can handle this pro-per with some homework.
Best first step is to learn all you can about the law in your state, in other words. Then you can worry about making the court do the right thing. If the order is correct, your friend doesn't have much choice but to increase his income somehow.
I don't have much use for fathers' rights groups, because most of them are full of guys who want to grouse and complain and not do a whole lot. It usually ends up with the second wives doing all the work, so I'd stay away from them unless you're lucky enough to find the rare exception that's activist and well-informed.
As to the mom telling the kids to call her boyfriend "daddy", this will backfire on her providing friend maintains his relationship with the kids. At some point, the kids will be able to decide where they live, and if mom is a mega-super-awful bitch, they might choose daddy at which point the whole equation changes, daddy's money or not.
As much as possible, he should try and maintain a positive attitude -- the kids will be grown some day, and believe it or not, there are others in much worse circumstances than his.
When you reproduce with a nutcase, bad things happen, but when the nutcase divorces you, your life will ultimately get better. Maybe not right away, and maybe not next week, but soon, and for the rest of your life. The main thing to understand, then, is that your friend's life will get a little better every day, and it wouldn't if he were still chained to the nutcase. So this is a good thing, even if it doesn't look that way right now.
NOTE: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
Okay, I'll bite.
How are the divorce laws in this country (or your specific state, since that's where the true power lies) "draconian towards men?"
Do the laws specify gender? Or do they specify income levels? Or is this an interpretation of the laws in which patriarchal jugdes unthinkingly assume that mothers are better parents?
So far I agree that men can and have been screwed by the system, but I could relate anecdotal evidence about women who have been just as screwed. Show me the bias.
And good luck to your friend. As a daughter of divorce, I *wish* my dad had actually asked for joint custody.