I credit this one insight from the series with quite possibly saving my marriage during its more rocky periods in the beginning. In retrospect, it's also an insight that would have helped in half the rocky times I've had with most of the females in my life. Including my mother, my sister, and 2/3rds of my female friends. Since females have often made up the majority of my friends, that's not insignificant:
When a man comes to you and talks to you about his problems, he is paying you a compliment. He trusts you more than most men. He expects you to have some insights that will help him fix his problem. He's almost always hoping you'll help him figure out the a solution that will optimize his situation. He usually wants you to make a suggestion, or several, that will help him figure out the most appropriate course of action to remedy his problem.
Conversely, when a woman comes to you and talks to you about her problems, she is also paying you a compliment. She trusts you to empathize with her situation, and hopes you will validate her feelings. She hopes you'll confirm that you'd feel the same way in her shoes, that she isn't off-base. She will usually feel much better if you confirm that you would mostly feel the same way.
If a woman makes the mistake of counseling a man by simply making sympathetic noises, cuddling him, telling him how much she likes him, and telling him everything will be okay, a man will tend to become irritable and impatient. 80% of him wanted your advice, and 20% of him wanted your sympathy.
If a man makes the mistake of counseling a woman by logically thinking through the situation and advising two or three courses of action, a woman will tend to become irritable. Indeed, if you persist in this course of action, she'll probably become insulted and angry. Because 10% of her wanted some ideas about what to do, but 90% of her wanted you to just be a sympathetic friend.
Best first response for a man talking to a woman about her problems: "Oh, that's just awful. What a terrible situation."
Best first response for a woman talking to a man about his problems: "Man. That's a toughie. Did you try X, Y, and Z?" (Or: "Why don't WE try X, Y, or Z?")
Get that backwards, and most of your relationships with the opposite sex will often be unnecessarily frustrating.
Yes, there are men who tend to have somewhat more feminine outlook about these things, and vice-versa. But in any given conversation, what I've outlined above is usually the best course of action.
It's shocked me how much so, once I made a conscious effort to adopt this in my everyday interactions with most women.
(Some of you will no doubt identify the source of this insight as a certain popular book that was all the rage in the 1990s. I urge you not to, because when people hear the name of that book they often immediately roll their eyes and stop listening. After all, it's a stupid series of books, written in purple prose and annoying kitchee-koo language. Forget the books, concentrate on the advice.)
Indeed. There's a reason 90% of engineers are men and 90% of counselors and social workers are women.
Don't forget there are exceptions to the general rule, though. I'm one of those guys who always preferred to moan and whine and eat ice cream with the rest of the girls. My mom, on the other hand, is a "get a solution and get it over with" type. Weird how the usual pattern reversed like that.
Oh Jeez. When my husband reads this, I'm sure he'll print it off, make copies, and wallpaper the livingroom with it. His favorite saying is "Don't come to me with your problems unless you want some answers." He's going to love this post.
What combustible boy said.
I prefer being offered possible solutions, and I have to restrain myself from offering solutions when I know someone is only looking for sympathy (and sometimes I can't tell).
Is it too much to ask people to say "I need a shoulder to cry on" or "I need some advice"????
Dr. Deborah Tannen wrote a brilliant book about this very thing called, "You Just Don't Understand". Worth reading.
D
Although it isn't the book you mention, I would recommend Dr. Beverly DeAngelis' "What Women Want Men to Know." Her advice is similar.
BTW, I would count myself among the men who like sometimes to have someone just listen and empathize with me when I'm down. Other times, I want solutions. But not always.
I know it when I see it.
Doesn't it depend on the situation and the timing? If you've just unexpectedly lost your job, probably empathy is what you need--at first--to be (later) supplemented by any practical ideas on finding a new one. But if your car breaks down, and you call your partner--who knows how to fix it--wouldn't you rather they just get on with telling you what to do? (I believe Deborah Tannen's husband had a little fun by trying "empathy" in a similar situation.)
Can we hear from Rosemary on this one?
Cathy: Well then point out something to your husband. One of the values in learning this is to learn not to irritate your wives, girlfriends, and other female friends so often, or be irritated by them. He needs to learn how not to snap off a bunch of analytical solutions as his first instinct when the love of his life--his wife--approaches him.
Women can do the converse, becoming more understanding of their men when they want to talk to him, by realizing that this is USUALLY a man's first instinctive response.
In fact, I'll bet you a shiny new nickle that you've gotten into more than one fight with your man because you started talking to him about something that was bothering you, and it started to get frustratingly combative, and then all of a sudden he all but exploded, saying, "WELL WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO ABOUT IT?!"
This isn't condescension. It's genuine frustration on the part of a creature who's been doing his damnedest to help his beloved and is only being rebuffed. Solution A is rejected, so he thinks harder and offers solution B. That's rejected so he tries even harder and comes up with compromise solution C. She just gets more flummoxed and starts to get mad at him. His reaction is then to usually retreat in frustration and confusion--probably muttering to himself "Freaking WOMEN! AAAARGH!"
However, if both of you--both him and you--understand and accept this difference, then both of you can start finding ways to meet each other in the middle. With a little humility, mutual understanding, and (probably most importantly) humor.
Also, calling your mom, sister, or girlfriend when you're clearly not getting what you need out of him sometimes helps. He'll often call one of his buddies when he's in the same boat. ;-)
For CB, Kathy, Ara, et. al.: An important thing to understand about a generalization is that it's just a generalization. Generalizations are not iron laws, nor is it a crime to generalize. They're just rules of thumb.
I find women who work in the prototypically male pattern in this regard to be charming and interesting. But I'll be blunt: they're also a little startling, because my experience is that they simply are not all that common. At least not in my family or among my closest female friends. Indeed, they seem to be the kind of women who dig hanging out with guys and to often find their fellow females irritating. ;-)
One of the constant frictions I get with what Christina Hoff Sommers calls the "Gender Feminists" is their kneejerk, "Don't generalize! Never generalize! Generalize bad, sexist, bad! No, no no!" Feh. It's tiresome. Life is too damned short. I'd rather learn some shorthand--what usually works--and then work on spotting the exceptions.
And it's no crime to be exceptional. Exceptional people make life interesting. ;-)
Some generalizations are ok, when talking about large groups. However, when dealing with an individual, I've found that generalizing "generally" leads to incorrect assumptions and misunderstandings.
Kathy,
The point of generalizations is not to prevent you from learing about an individual. Instead it is to help you make more accurate assumtions in situations when you have very limited information.
In this case. When someone comes to you for advice. If they are a woman it is better to focus more on being supportive, validating their feelings, and expressing confidence that they can overcome the problem. With a man however, it is usually better to focus on providing him with ideas on how to handle the problem. Of course, that's not always the case, and the information you know about the individual should be given a higher priority than the generalization. It is beneficial, however, to know what most people think as you the nare more likely to take the correct action when you don't know as much about the individual.
When you hold on to a generalization in spite of information about an individual is when you pass generalization and move into pejudice and bigotry. It is hanging on to generalizations that more often leads to incorrect assumptions.
Correct generalizations, however, usually lead to correct assumptions, which is why they are helpful and beneficial. Just don't confuse generalizations with rules and hang on to assumptions in spite of evidence.
Well, Dean, I think you would lose your shiny new nickle on that bet. (I'll bet you a shiny new nickle that you've gotten into more than one fight with your man because ...)
I have to clear his good name, even if it means sullying mine.
He's a very patient, commiserating listner. He offers solutions only when solicited. It's only after I've rejected plans A - F that he hauls out his favorite quote.
I should have been clearer in my post. It just made me laugh to think of his reaction to seeing himself (and a lot of men) justified in your post. :)
I would just mention one thing (FWIW, I have 26 years of marriage - yes, to the same person). At some point, after the same problem has been cooed over and sympathized for Nth time, I get to start making suggestions to solve it.
From that point on, should said problem come up again, I reserve the right to ask if any of the suggestions have been implemented or even thought about.
Hey Cathy: Send me your address and I'll send you your nickel! dean at deanesmay.com
The best relationship advice I have hit upon is that if your partner is happy, you'll be happy.
The corollary is for when kids come along: if momma's happy, the whole family is happy.
You're a good sport, Dean! :)
Early in our marriage, Hubby and I adopted a practice to prevent the very type of frustration you're talking about, Dean. When we sit down to talk about a situation, we lead with what we're looking for out of the other person. I'll say, "I'm going through X and want you to unload," and he'll sit and listen and empathize. Likewise, he'll come to me and say "Y and Z happened at work and I was wondering if you'd have any ideas on how to deal with them." It solved a number of communication problems for us, although every now and then we still slip back into decades-old patterns of listening.
It's probably a good idea for a man to sympathize with a woman who wants to describe a problem.
But if he wants to sleep indoors, he'd damned well better solve the problem.