I thought the same thing. I think that people are so jaded by politicians doing stuff like this for crass electoral manipulation purposes (and looking totally dorky while doing so) that many people are still in that sort of mentality where every policitian automatically is labelled a dork when he does some military gesture thing.

As for myself, the minute I heard he was going to do the stunt, I thought, "Oh god, something bad is going to happen." But it didn't. Now, there are some who might be angry that the president did something so potentially disastrous, but they aren't in his position. I think that Bush is the sort of person who has decided that the benifits of certain risks are worth the momentary uncertainty and potential danger (ie: war in Iraq vs. business as usual with Hussein until the earth is destroyed in a nuclear war or swallowed up by the sun, whichever comes first). It's rather refreshing to finally have someone in charge (well, for quite a few years) who doesn't believe in maintaining the status quo regardless of whether it is good or ill to do so.

Oh -- and most important, the military liked the plane-flying thing, they feel that they finally have a president who respects and even likes them instead of merely putting up with their presence as a necessary evil. And I think the so-called "third worldism" of the president doing some macho military thing can only make our enemies feel a little more as if they have taken hold of the wrong end of a rattlesnake. And that can't be a bad thing.

I concur with your theory, and I'm perfectly content to have the Bush-haters belittle the carrier-landing escapade from now right up until the 2004 election. The only thing they accomplish is to reveal themselves as small, envious and petty.

Bush appreciates the military, and they appreciate him. It shows: as pumped up as Bush was at the end of that wild ride, the deck crew were even more so at having him pay them homage. He's comfortable with them, and they with him.

I guess I needn't comment, since Andrea said it for me.

Every day, G.W. reminds me more and more of Tom Clancy's favorite character, Jack Ryan. Especially in the later books, like Executive Orders. He does things that are "unpresidential" but he ends up looking even better in the public eye. I don't think that Bush was doing this for anyone except himself and the military. And you can see from the smile on his face when he disembarked that it was mostly for him. I'm sure he had a slew of advisers in a tizzy because of the risk he was taking. I must say it did impress me.

I don't think that Bush was doing this for anyone except himself and the military.

He did it for a few other people too, the ex military (like me) recognize and value the gesture as much as serving military.

He was also sending a message to the "third world". That message was simple, but profound. "I have really big balls and I am not afraid to take chances."

If you don't think people like bin Laden (if he still lives) understood that, and what it means for them, you are sadly mistaken. Yasser Arafat understood it too. So did Jack Chirac.

Basically, he was waving the Hopkins Flag at the world.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Aside: I've made a carrier landing, as a passenger, and if you offered me a million dollars to do it again, I wouldn't even talk to you.) (It's not worth the after tax profit, offer me five million and we can talk.)

I remember Dukakis in the tank, laughed my ass off! I felt at that moment too that he was toast, but I also felt that Bush I was later toast when he puked in the Japanese PM's lap on camera...I still wonder if that one was a setup (bad sushi? on purpose?)

I'm a dubya fan, but I think the decision to land on an aircraft carrier was wrong and was a more questionable decision on President Bush's part. I don't think he should choose to take that kind of risk. I know the military and a lot of citizens think is shows his support, and it does, but one of dubya's responsibilities is to preserve his leadership in office. I think a helicopter landing would have proved his support. I would certainly like to know the odds between a successful helicopter landing versus a fixed wing landing on an Aircraft carrier. If something had gone wrong he would have looked foolish indeed, and possibly have left the country without his leadership. (Dubya detractors need not respond, I know enough of your thoughts on this)

Having made the decision and having landed successfully he apparently circumvented the "looking foolish" claims of others. Having been a pilot previously, he looked comfortable in flight gear. He is also one of the more fit presidents we've had in recent years.

When Dukakis made his gaffe I remember and article that a president should never have his picture taken in a silly hat. Besides Dukakis, the article referenced President Coolidge wearing an American Indian headdress. Even though I question dubya's decision in this instance, given the outcome I think he pulled it off in style.

I'm definitely a believer that one of his reasons was personal

*** Bush / Cheney ***
*** 2004 ***

Bush? Ryan??

Puh-leeze.

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... Even Susan Estrich (sp?) gave the Bush moment a "10" ... and the Dukakis moment a "1". Get real Bush-haters.

It does take a lot of balls to do something like that. Can you imagine being the pilot of that plane? Your commander comes to you and says, "The president wants you to fly him in." Yikes!! But the point is that Bush has so much trust in the training of our men and women that he probably wasn't worried about it. I think that was the point. They put their lives in his hands and he responded by doing the same. It's so nice to have a real man in the White House.

Rodney: one of the motivations behind a carrier landing was that the Abraham Lincoln was out of helicopter range.

Ara: I dunno if this'll upset you more than the Jack Ryan link, but I was flashing on Bill Pullman's character from "ID4: Independance Day", though I think Pullman is more eloquent than Bush. :))

One thing that most folks seem to be missing, and that Gary emphasizes, is that there is no such thing as a "routine" carrier landing. Also, Bush flew F-102s for the Texas Air National Guard. You don't get to fly hot interceptors just because you have a famous-politician daddy and you're dodging the draft.:) The man is (literally) a veteran pilot. I am sure he had a very good idea of what he was facing.

Something else that most folks aren't discussing: Bush originally wanted to go in the back seat of an F-18! Yikes. I can just see the Secret Service collectively pissing its pants about that idea. Heh.

The last thing that no one has mentioned (except John Derbyshire over at NRO) that this is exactly what Churchill would have done. Winny always loved to be in the middle of where things were happening. Teddy Rooseveldt was like that, too. If memory served, Mark Hanna called Teddy a "cowboy" more than once. :)

Also, Bush flew F-102s for the Texas Air National Guard.

A friend of mine who also flew F-102s told me that the fatality rate for F-102 pilots was higher than for combat troopers in Viet Nam. I have no reason to doubt it (since he has done both).

I don't think he should choose to take that kind of risk.

If he had asked my opinion, I would have spoken against it for just that reason. But understand, he knew damned well what risk he was taking. He IS a hot jet pilot, he IS a military man. He's been on carriers before, he's SEEN those landings, and he is familiar with the risks.

He did it anyway. And he WANTED to do it in an F18.

Is he crazy?

That's what our enemys are wondering tonight. He sent a whole LOT of messages with that landing, in addition to the ones I already mentioned....

He is fully confident in the ability of his team to carry on his work under the leadership of Dick Cheney.

He is fully confident in the abilities of Dick Cheney.

He is fully confident in the abilitie of the US Navy to take as good care of the CinC as it does of the REST of its pilots.

While he is willing to listen to the Secret Service, HE decides what he is going to do. (Never, under any circumstances short of global thermonuclear war, would the Secret Service approve of a carrier landing in a jet.)

There just isn't anything "wishy washy" about George W. Bush.

He says what he is going to do. Then he does it.

He doesn't brag. (Remember, it's not bragging if you can back it up.)

And to clarify my earlier comment, he didn't send just ONE message to the troops, current, former and future. He sent many (some of them overlap).

1. I am one of you.
2. I understand you and share your values.
3. I am willing to put my ass on the line for you as you have done/will do for me.
4. I AM the HMFIC. (Head Mother Fucker In Charge).
5. I care about your good opinion.
6. I understand respect.
7. I understand that loyalty runs both ways. (A leader cannot expect his troops to die for him if he is not willing to die for them.)
8. I am a full fledged member of the brotherhood of war, you are my brothers and my sisters.

Ummm, speaking of fatalityrates, Being President of the United States is considerably more dangerous than flying jets onto carriers.

Think about it. There have been 43 Presidents and 8 have died in office. That is a fatality rate of 19%.

Nasty.

I was just wondering about that, Gary.

There is no job you could ask for wherein you will be hated by more people. Moreover, odds of someone trying to kill you approach 100%. The Secret Service is one of the best security details in the world--possibly the best--but even still, just think about it: about 1 in 5 people who get the job are killed. Even then, what the remaining 4 in 5? Just in my lifetime (born in 1966), at least three Presidents--Reagan, Ford, and Clinton--have had attempts made on their lives that got major press.

Four if you count that rabbit who almost took out Carter.

Ara,

Yes. Jack Ryan. Read Gary's list of messages sent. Is that not Jack Ryan? (Well, except maybe number 8).

If he had asked my opinion, I would have spoken against it for just that reason. But understand, he knew damned well what risk he was taking. He IS a hot jet pilot, he IS a military man. He's been on carriers before, he's SEEN those landings, and he is familiar with the risks.

Gary, I'm sure he knew the risks, but my point is that as leader of the United States he should have put the preservation of the chain of command as a higher priority. It was the risk to the presidency not his personal risk that should have taken priority.

However, this in no way really alters my opinion of his capabilities as president. I just didn't like this particular decision.

Do you suppose your beloved dumbass "president" will ever get around to giving a complete and accurate account of why he never bothered to complete his National Guard service? I think you'll see a Cubs-Red Sox world series before you hear Dubya begin to deal with this issue.

Face it, your guy's a jackass in an empty suit.

WRT 1 in 5 Presidents being "killed" -- four out of those eight died of natural causes:

Wm. Henry Harrison: pneumonia contracted while making lengthy inauguration speech on a very cold day - dumb mistake on his part...

Zachary Taylor: gastroenteritis, contracted after consuming iced milk and cherries when overheated.

Warren G. Harding: heart problems (job-related stress? Dunno on that one...)

FDR: Cerebral hemorrhage (job-related stress? On that one, I'd say "definitely")

So, we have four out of 43 deliberately murdered, bringing that particular toll down to less than 10%. Of the other four, one, maybe two deaths were due to job stress, and the other two were essentially by misadventure...

Thank you for proving my point so well, Polly.

And thank YOU for proving MY point so well, Dean.

In one sense I think all of the comparisons between Bush and Dukakis are superficial to the extreme. You're talking about who looks better in military getup. What conclusions can you draw from that? I mean should we be electing presidents on the basis on how they look in a suit? The weird pat is many do, the fact that "looking presidential" is even brought up as a serious topic for discussion demonstrates how utterly consumed with the superficial we seem to be in this country. And before you start going off and quoting Dukakis' military record (two years active duty in post war Korea), don’t bother because if you like Bush, his military record didn’t matter. Bush defeated a man whose military credentials clearly outclassed him by a long shot in the Republican primaries.

Look it's simple if you like Bush you thought it was great, if you don't you saw it as a cheap stunt. Simple, any analysis beyond that is hardly worth considering.

It was the risk to the presidency not his personal risk that should have taken priority.

I got that. I think HE thinks the risk to the Presidency is less important than the message(s) sent. Note my comment that he is confident in the ability of his team to carry on.

four out of those eight died of natural causes:

Harrison wouldn't have been making that speech if he were not president, so that makes it 7 out of 8 that arguable died because of being president.

But note that I didn't say anything about cause of death in my original post. For whatever reason, nearly 20% of people elected president have died in office. Them's bad odds.

your guy's a jackass in an empty suit

Dude, that jackass is OUR President. YOU can sneer all you want, but you're stuck with him til 2008, unless the Messiah returns and decides to run as a Democrat.

IN YOUR FACE, COMMIE. :)

your guy's a jackass in an empty suit

Not that I can agree with statement, but even this would be better than the grifting slug, who couldn't keep his pants up around interns.

>>Do you suppose your beloved dumbass "president" will ever get around to giving a complete and accurate account of why he never bothered to complete his National Guard service? I think you'll see a Cubs-Red Sox world series before you hear Dubya begin to deal with this issue.

Face it; your guy's a jackass in an empty suit.

================================================

Polly, you can say the exact same thing regarding Bill Clinton, that is if you have the intellectual integrity to admit it. Remember, Clinton NEVER served in the military…He actually dodged the draft. In addition, he was kicked out of Cambridge while dodging the draft in England. At least Bush DID serve in the military. However he served is still better than Clinton’s draft dodging. I suppose you criticize Bush because you believe you have the moral authority to do so as are all Clinton supporters, er apologists Polly.

I guess you can call Bush a dumbass until you look at the alternative, Al Gore. That man had worse grades and test scores than Bush ever did. I suppose Al Gore had to try extra hard to flunk out of Vanderbilt twice while George W. Bush was successfully completing Harvard’s graduate business school once. Gore also exaggerated every single accomplishment he ever had. Gore’s incessant stretchers actually made me wonder about his mental stability, as it should have for every American. Polly, can you find it within you to call Al Gore a dumbass, too?

Al Gore was one empty, empty suit. Bill Clinton was the emptiest suit I have seen in the thirty years I have followed politics since sixth grade. Clinton will NEVER give any rendering why he never served in the military; and none of you Clinton apologists will ever ask for one, either.

Oh, lookie, we've flushed out a troll...

Brian: I thought Taylor contracted the gastroenteritis from iced milk and cucumbers? At least that's what Morison says in his history (about which, by odd coincidence, I have just read last week). I supppose it doesn't matter too much. The attempted remedies probably were the actual cause of death, alas.

Rick: this isn't just who "looks good in the suit", but I suppose you really don't have any grasp of what kind of balls it takes to make a carrier landing. That's the main point. And, I wouldn't mention Dukakis' record as a clerk if I were you. Heh.

Dean: you not gonna count the contract that Hussein put out on Bush Sr.? Or do you just count domestic crazies? :))

Rick:

Look it's simple if you like Bush you thought it was great, if you don't you saw it as a cheap stunt. Simple, any analysis beyond that is hardly worth considering.

Um, no. As I stated in my original post here, I am not a Bush "fan."

But I appreciated what he did that day on the USS Abraham Lincoln.

So analyze that.

Oh and by the way, those of you who hated everything done by the 42nd president simply because his name was Clinton...?

Get over it.

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You might as well tell everyone to get over the U.S political process, Ara. As soon as every Liberal Hack foregoes the opportunity to prefix every use of the words "Bush", "Republican", "right", "Conservative", etc. with a derogatory adjective, then I can do the same for "Clinton", "Liberal", "Left."

Anyway, you should get the point.

People don't hate Clinton for his name. They just have a severe distaste for his lack of character and leadership during his tenure as president.

Well, there's also the elected in year ending in 0 curse. The one where there's been at least an attempt on the life of every president elected in a year ending in 0.

Don't know how well that one holds up actually, but it's an old saw. :-)

David:

You're referring to the infamous Zero Factor, but it doesn't relate to attempts on the life of the President.

It merely says that, starting in 1840, Presidents elected in a year ending in zero, die in office.

William Henry Harrison 1840 pneumonia
Abraham Lincoln 1860 assassinated
James Abram Garfield 1880 assassinated
William McKinley 1900 assassinated
Warren Gamaliel Harding 1920 stroke
Franklin Delano Roosevelt 1940 cerebral hemorrhage
John Fitzgerald Kennedy 1960 assassinated

Ronald Reagan 1980 narrowly escaped assassination
George W. Bush 2000 ?

We used to joke (?) that the election of 2000 would have had a perfect Twilight Zone twist ending when Al Gore got struck by lightning.

Heh.

Or Dick Cheney died of a heart attack.

As a liberal democrat, a Clinton supporter, hell, I damn-near worship at the shrine of James Carville (no, there really isn't one...yet) and currently serving in my 13th year in the Army. I absolutely oppose Pres. Bush's tax cuts, but I gotta tell you...his landing on the aircraft carrier KICKED ASS!!!! I don't give a rat's ass if it was a publicity stunt (which I doubt it was) because it significantly boosted the morale of the troops. Fact is, I might find many flaws in his administration, but I know one thing for sure, Dubya is one sincere cowboy.

Tim

reading the stats of presidents dying in office, i count four confirmed assassinations. but i have heard a lot of speculation that president warren g. harding was murdered by poison, and the same thing to a lesser extent with zachary taylor. regarding bush's carrier landing, i simply don't care anymore, i developed a technique i call "looking through the wrong end of the telescope" which makes objects like washington d.c. seem much further away; washington twirls in its own space with no input from me except on april 15 of a good year moneywise. like i told people after the 2000 election:
"this proves that every single vote counts....
AS LONG AS YOU'RE ON THE U.S. SUPREME COURT!"

I find it funny that you would have to put a caption on one of the photos to make it seem so contradicting. Oh well...

I find it funny that you would have to put a caption on one of the photos to make it seem so contradicting. Oh well...