Dean, it sounds like what you're saying is "when the right mentions religion, everyone thinks they are radicals, but no one reacts that way when the left mentions religion."

I think the reason you get different reactions has less to do with hypocrisy and more to do with how much people equate the candidate with religious intolerance. When Gore says "I think the purpose of life is to glorify God," I don't think anyone seriously believes he means to make Christianity the state religion. On the other hand, that is on the agenda of the Religious Right.

As a member of the Religious Left, I'm pleased that Democratic candidates have the good sense to talk to us for a change. The Religious Right doesn't think we're really religious, and the extreme Liberal Left doesn't think we're really liberal --- so we tend to get lost in the shuffle.

Hm.

There's also a bit of assymetrical class warfare going down here. Translation: overdogs vs. underdogs.

Religious Right=overdogs.
Religious Left=underdogs.

But my god Dean, the chirping cricket thing is FUNNY!

keepin it real!

The claim that the "agenda" of the "Religious Right" is to make Christianity the state religion is a very common belief. It's also wrong. There is little to no evidence to support this very common prejudice. Not that you can't find one or two here or there, but the vast majority of religious conservatives want no such thing, which is obvious to anyone who actually listens to them or talks to them.

The perception that the "religious right" are "overdogs" is an interesting one, Ara. I'd suggest that a more fair look at things is that they're underdogs. Underdogs who get stereotyped, vilified, and all but spat upon by the dominant culture on a near-constant basis. Especially by the dominant media culture.

It's called prejudice. Ya know?

John, Dean's quite right about the "make Christianity the state religion" issue. I'd classify myself as Religious Right, although I'm more interested in politics than I am involved in it. I am utterly opposed to the establishment of state religions. That doesn't mean that I believe in the warped view of separation that views a town hall nativity scene as an act of domestic terrorism, or that insists the ten commandments shouldn't be in a courtroom.

C'mon people, it is all about money...the dopes that dupe us are the ones we pay for political litigation, that is in taxes. Everyone knows that the constitution and most of our laws are based on the bible, so what... these are civil necessities....the only thing I haven't yet read in the bible is how to keep right wingers from continually suing left wingers, or vice versa, into governmental poverty to uphold a vague statement such as keeping church and state seperate entities. Why, when it keeps murderers off the street and etc...my hand is not in the government's pocket so I guess I can bitch....

"the only thing I haven't yet read in the bible is how to keep right wingers from continually suing left wingers, or vice versa, into governmental poverty to uphold a vague statement such as keeping church and state seperate entities. "

I think you got it backwards kiddo."Right-wingers" don't continually sue to uphold separation of Church & State - that's the "Lefties" ... It's not even vice - versa.

I like your rant Dean. I also agree with theraj that money is the core political problem because money, unfortunately, wins office.

The religious right IS the "underdog" in our culture, mainly due to media bias and "intellecutal" marginalization.

As for abortion, the procedure isn't even healthy or safe for anyone; odds of getting breast cancer increase substantially, 63% of all aborters get treated for psychological disorders within 90 days of procedure, and this one! RU-486 is not safe and has recently killed two more people and put four more in the hospital for complications (but the drug was rushed to market because of political pressure). And the majority of those (and future) medical costs are paid for by tax payers. (Hear this in the media? Didn't think so) So my beef with abortion is, don't expect me to allow your "right to choose," then when you get stung by it, expect me to support your depraved behavior with my tax dollar!

[laugh] Condoms don't even stop STDs effectively -espcecially AIDS. They only really stop conception fairly effectively - and people still mess that up...ok, my rant is over, sorry.

Dean - The [crickets chirping] remark was great!

Peace,
Jason

-the all aborters comment is meant to reflect a study done of 173,000 women in California, and not nation wide.

I apologize for the lack of documentation there.

I'm not really interested in seeing a debate on abortion at this time, here and now. So let's not clip that short for now, okay?

As for money controlling politics: I don't agree that it does. Not the way people think, anyway. The system could be cleaner, and money could have less influence, if we made certain changes, however. Including lifting (yes I said lifting) contribution limits.

See Campaign Finance "Reform" for more on this.

COMMENTARY:

Many problems in human experience result from a false and
and inaccurate definition of humankind - premised in man-made
religions and humanistic philosophies. Definitions, for better
or worse, rule in the minds, behaviors, and institutions of
mankind. It is therefore essential to perceive and specify that
distinction which naturally and most uniquely defines the human
being. We can be confident that delineating and communicating
that quality which will assist the process of resolution and the
courageous ascension to which we humans are called. As Americans
of the 21st century we are obliged and privileged to join our
forebears and participate in its continuing proclamation.

MAN DEFINED: EARTH'S CHOICEMAKER
By James Fletcher Baxter
(c) 2003 All Rights Reserved

Human knowledge is a fraction of the whole universe. The
balance is a vast void of our human ignorance. Human reason
cannot fully function in such a void, thus the intellect can
rise no higher than the criteria by which it perceives and
measures values.

Humanism makes man his own standard of measure, however, as
with all measuring systems, a standard must be greater than the
value measured. Based on preponderant ignorance and an ego-
centric carnal nature, humanism demotes reason to the simpleton
task of excuse-making in behalf of the rule of appetites,
desires, feelings, emotions, and glands.

Because man cannot invent criteria greater than himself, the
humanist lacks a predictive capability. Without transcendent
criteria, humanism cannot evaluate options with foresight for
progression and survival. Lacking foresight, man is blind to
potential consequence and is unwittingly committed to the
redundant wreckage of expensive hindsight: averages, mediocrity,
and regression - and worse. Humanistic opinion is therefore an
inadequate and unworthy resource.

In the realm of the physical universe, only statistical
conglomerates pay tribute to deterministic forces.
Singularities do not and are therefore random and unpredict-
able, and in this sense, uncaused. Thus, the finest contribu-
tion inanimate reality is capable of making toward choice,
without its own selective agencies, is this continuing opportu-
nity as the pre-condition to choice it defers to living forms.

Biological science affirms that each level of life, single-cell
to man himself, possesses attributes of sensitivity, discrim-
ination, and selectivity, and in the unique nature of each
diverse life form.

The survival and progression of life forms has all too often
been dependent upon an ever-present potential and undetermin-
ative appearance of one unique individual organism within the
whole spectrum of a given species. Only the uniquely equipped
individual organism is, like the Golden Wedge of Ophir, capable
of traversing the causal-gap to survival and progression.
Mere reproductive determinacy would have rendered life forms
incapable of such potential. Only a moving universe of
opportunity plus choice enables the present reality.

The human being possesses a unique, highly developed and
sensitive perception of diversity. Thus aware, man is endowed
with a natural capability for enacting an internal mental and
external physical selectivity. Quantitative and qualitative
choice-making thus lends itself as the superior basis of an
active intelligence.

Man is earth's Choicemaker. His title describes his definitive
and typifying characteristic. Recall that his other features
are but vehicles of experience intent on the development of
perceptive awareness and the following acts of decision. Note
that the products of mankind cannot define them for they are
the fruit of the discerning choicemaking process and include
the cognition of self, the utility of experience, the develop-
ment of value-measuring systems and language, and the accul-
turation of civilization.

The arts and the sciences of man, as with his habits, customs,
and traditions, are the creative harvest of his perceptive and
selective powers. His articles, constructs, and commodities,
however marvelous to behold, deserve neither awe nor idolatry,
for man, not his contrivance, is earth's own highest expression
of the creative process.

Man is earth's Choicemaker. The sublime and significant act
of choosing is, itself, the Archimedean fulcrum upon which
humans lever and direct the forces of cause and effect to an
elected level of quality and variety. Further, it orients him
toward environmental opportunity, freedom, and bestows earth's
title, The Choicemaker, on his singular and plural brow.

"Who is the man that fears the Lord? Him shall He teach in the
way he chooses." Psalm 25:12 Man is earth's Choicemaker. He is
by nature and nature's God a creature of choice and of criteria.
Psalm 119:30,173. His unique and definitive characteristic is,
and of Right ought to be, the natural foundation of his environ-
ments, institutions, and respectful relations to his fellow-man.
Thus, he is oriented to a freedom whose roots are in the Order
of the universe.

The void of human ignorance can easily be filled with a
functional faith while not-so-patiently awaiting the foot-
dragging growth of human knowledge and behavior. Faith, initia-
ted by the Creator and revealed and validated in His Word, the
Bible, brings a transcendent standard to earth's choice-maker.
Other philosophies and religions are man-made, and thereby lack
what only the Bible has: transcendent criteria and fulfilled
prophetic validation. The vision of faith in God and His Word
is survival equipment for today and the future.

Deterministic systems, ideological symbols of oppression and
abdication by humans from their natural role as earth's
Choicemaker, degenerate into collectivism: the negation of
individual value, they become a conglomerate plural-based system
of measuring human value. Blunting an awareness of diversity,
blurring alternatives, and delimiting the selective creative
process, they are self-relegated to a circular and passive
regression.

Tampering with man's selective nature endangers his survival,
for such attempts render him impotent and obsolete by denying
the tools of diversity, individuality, perception, criteria,
selectivity, and progress. Oppressive and coercive attempts
produce revulsion, for such acts are contrary to an indetermin-
ate nature and nature's indeterminate off-spring, man the
choicemaker.

Until the oppressors discover that wisdom only just begins with
a respectful acknowledgement of the Creator, the Creation, and
the Choicemaker, they will be ever learning but never coming to
a knowledge of the truth. The rejection of Creator-initiated
standards relegates the mind of man to its own empirical,
primitive, and delimited devices. It is thus that the human
intellect cannot ascend and function at any level higher than
its criteria.

The carnal-ego rejects criteria and self-discipline for such
instruments are tools of the mind and attitude. The appetites
of the flesh have no respect for standards, for at the point
of contention, standards are perceived as alien, restrictive,
and inhibiting. Yet, the very survival of our physical nature
itself depends upon a maintained sovereignty of the mind - and
of the spirit.

As long as some choose to abdicate their personal reality and
submit to the delusions of man-made collectivism, just so long
will they be subject and reacting only, to be tossed by every
impulse emanating from others. Those who choose such a path of
abdication may, in perfect justice, find themselves weighed in
the balances of their own choosing.

It is worthy to recall that the principles of Biblical
scripture are still today the foundation under Western Civil-
ization and the American way of life. That human institution
which is structured on the principle, "...all men are endowed
by their Creator with...Liberty..," is a system with its roots
in the natural Order of the universe. The opponents of such a
system are necessarily engaged in a losing contest with "nature
and nature's God." To the advent of a new Season we commend the
present generation and its "...multitudes in the valley of
decision." The Season of Generation-Choicemaker Joel 3:14 KJV

"Envy thou not the oppressor and choose none of his ways."
Proverbs 3:31

"The claim that the "agenda" of the "Religious Right" is to make Christianity the state religion is a very common belief. It's also wrong. There is little to no evidence to support this very common prejudice."
Well let's see Jerry Falwell and Pat Robinson, the spokesmen for the religious right have already claimed that the September 11th attacks were caused because our nation is not composed 100% of christians and worse, not composed of 100% of people who cling to the narrow extremist christianity held by the religous right. The AFA and other religious right groups FREQUENTLY distribute info on making this a "Christian America." All that sounds like pleas for a state religion to me.
Regardless, the concept that the left is less likely to seek to impose religious views on anyone is quite accurate. When Gore says the purpose of his life is to glorify God, nobody felt that were he to get into office he would immediately formulate policy that miposed narrow religous beliefs on the population. However we've now seen George Bush lead (in his own words) a "crusade." Now he has proclaimed a national "Anti-Gay Week." THis is what the commotion is about when the religous right opens there mouth. History dictates that while the left holds religous beliefs dear. they do not try to impose them on everyone aroudn them. The right does so shamelessly.